a) i said nothing about forms, i doubt that Jesus did either, i wonder if he made his disciples sign wavers or membership forms prior to walking around with him. actually i wonder if there was a card or a candle that he gave others to take home to simbolise their committment to him if they didnt want to go and do the walking...
That's exactly my point. There was no formal ceremony, form to sign, etc, in what Jesus offered. Simply a call to walk alongside. That's one point where the analogy between church membership and belonging to god/christ falls down.
b) im talking about membership to the Church, not strictly the UCA
This entire discussion originated in a question about procedures for joining the UCA, and your original post under this topic clearly referred to that. If you're now changing the basis on which the discussion is founded, I think you should make that clearer, because I don't think that's in debate.
I guess my problem is i see a family, a community when everyone keeps on trying to convince me that we're an institution first, community second.
Even families have formal recognition of membership, and require willingness to accept new members before such recognition can occur. Another analogy that works for church membership, but not for belonging to god.
Id like to see us begin to wither away at our "club mentality" of the UCA where we stop talking about who is a member and who is not, stop talking about who's removed their membership and who hasnt and move onto what's really important...
Agreed. Except that people who want to express their belonging need a process by which to do so publicly. Hence the original request. In other words, it shouldn't matter to us who *else* belongs, but it's important we know whether *we* do (or want to).
And here I'm speaking as someone who's deliberately chosen to walk outside "church membership" while still belonging to god. But there are many who don't agree that's possible, and think it's HUGELY important.
Im a "member" of the UCA not through baptism, not through confirmation... they were faith choices and statements.
Im a "member" of the UCA because my journey's led me to continue to attend the UCA.
Not in the view of the institution, you're not! Not without a membership ceremony of the kind that was requested at the beginning of the thread (or the assumption that confirmation/baptism within the UCA means that you want to belong to the UCA as your denomination of preference).
But whats more important is that i belong to the Church which is full of a wonderful array of people of many wonderful journeys and faith statements...
Im a christian first, being a UCA member is wayyyyyyyy down in the importance level from that...
Sure. I feel the same. But the original point of the discussion was what ceremony/ritual do we have for those who want to express (or indeed claim the rights of) membership in the UCA? So of course we're talking about membership of the UCA, rather than of the church.
I used to go to Crows matches in Adelaide (AFL), scream and chant out their names, watch them on tv, wear a scarfe... but Ive never been a member of the club, does that mean im not a real follower?
possibly
Yep :-) It's all about demonstrable level of commitment!
We're supposed to be wandering around showing the people the kingdom of God, yet we seem to be wandering around trying to give them a ticket to a club...
If they *ask* for a ticket, and when a ticket is required in order to have any active part in parish affairs, what else would you suggest??
Clare *************************************************** Clare Pascoe Henderson http://www.clergyabuseaustralia.org Clergy Sexual Abuse in Australia Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***************************************************
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