Re: Tom Bandy Reflection Part One - Palliative Care

[Darren Wright]

Thanks Allan, You're right there, it does open some serious theological questions there about God and what is spiritual growth.  I like the idea of God being in palliative care... but I think it might actually be that God is doing fairly fine, we're just cutting off his drip and airflow on occasions as a church. To say that in a different way I think God doesnt have a bad image, we do. To put simply where Bandy is coming from, and truth be told I had a lot of issues with some of his message, but still think they are questions that might be helpful to bash out a little.  Anyhow, Tom's really pushing a Church Growth method, just a different one from Hybel and Warren. Tom seems to believe in the church, and is trying to sell a model in which we can do it better (I think that's almost a Glen Powell quote there).  So in a way he is still flogging the old horse, but in this way he's trying to convince the church that there is a better way of operating, a better way to come to missional activities, a better way to resource it, a better way to run our congregations.... One question I'll raise now and might flesh out later, (unless Glen wants to have a go) is if doing church better will help us or kill us. Interested in keeping conversation going... I'll probably try and expand on his model in another reflection if I don't get too tired in writing them out. Shalom -- Darren Wright Fool Youth and Family Worker UCA NSW Synod Presbytery of Canberra Region GPO Box 221. Canberra. ACT. 2601. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02 6248 9311 (office) "The Gospel must be constantly forwarded to a new address, because the recipient is repeatedly changing place of residence." - Helmut Thielicke Allan Wrote: Some interesting reflections, Darren. I couldn't help thinking, however, that if we were to be really honest with ourselves about 'palliative care of congregations', we would have to admit that in reality we really are only applying palliative care to the whole church as it is functioning to day. This is largely because the God we have been proclaiming through our doctrines and creeds is himself currently receiving palliative care. The credibility of this God is and has been under attack since we started to move into a scientific understanding of the universe and until we start to perceive God in a way that makes sense of the world we live in, I can't see much hope of a resuscitation.   I'm not sure where Bandy is in all this, but if we don't start to take seriously the reality of the theological crisis that the church is in then I don't think we are going to go very far. It is one thing to talk about promoting "spiritual growth" but what does Bandy mean by it? Does he mean trying to flog the same old worn out horse to a community that is now getting around in aeroplanes or is he talking about a spirituality that talks about God in a way that makes sense of the world as we know it today?   I think that until we are confident enough to talk about God in the sort of language that gives people the ability to be comfortable with their faith we will not be able to do much more than supply palliative care to those who are stuck in the old formulas for God. Interestingly enough, I find that the more I have the confidence to speak about God in commonsense language and get away from the 'fall-redemption-atonement' doctrines that have so thoroughly permeated Christian thought for around 1700 years, the more people start to rediscover their enthusiasm for the faith journey because, although they have been paying lip service to the doctrines for most of their lives, they no longer really believe them in their hearts or their minds.   Just a few thoughts from a heretic. Allan ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------