Hi Rob
I certainly wasn't implying that anyone was using their position inappropriately - quite the converse in fact. I agree with Judy's post regarding two different continua representing change and control, but in the context of Darren's original question about controllers (defined in his post as usually resistant to change) in the non-congregational councils of the church, I was simply making an off the cuff point that many of the malcontents regarding Res 84 have been saying things like "the Assembly is out of touch with the grassroots" etc..
Thus the impression given (and I realise they can be misleading) is that the Assembly (for instance) is *more open* to change than the general population of the church. Hence my hunch that in fact there are *less* controllers (ie those resistant to change) in the Assembly (and from my own observation the same goes for Synod and Presbytery).
Then I expressed my further hunch that, as a gross generalisation, those in specified ministry are more open to change than many in the general population of the church, and hence that the relatively greater representation of specified ministry agents in other councils of the church changes their composition relative to the general population.
Please understand me too - I think that is a *good* thing. I hear many people bemoaning the fact that the Assembly needs to "give us leadership". I personally think that the Assembly *did* give us *excellent* and thoughtful leadership, and that the ASC and the staff of the Assembly *continue* to give us leadership and it's a crying shame that more people aren't choosing to *submit* to that leadership.
Hope that clears things up for you Rob
Cheers Linz
On 02/08/2004, at 7:46, Rob Bos wrote:
Hi Lindsay,
Could you say a bit more about the controllers, please? Do you see the
controllers at Assembly as some of the elected people who participate in the
trinennial meeting and set the agenda for the national life of the church?
Are they people elected to the Assembly standing committee who meet three
times a year? Are they the appointed staff? Or are they the officers of the
Assembly - President, ex President, President elect and General Secretary?
And then how does the controlling occur?
(As a member of the last Assembly and Assembly staff person, I would want to
ensure that I am not using my position inappropriately.) Thanks.
Rob Bos
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lindsay Cullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Insights List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Tom Bandy Reflection Part 3 - Controllers
body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1))On 29/07/2004, at 21:32, Darren Wright wrote:
• The second question is about the membership of our Presbyteries
and Synods. If many controllers make it to the controlling parts of
our congregations and committees, how many make it to our Presbyteries
and Synods? From hearing Tom Bandy and others speak I’m now afraid
that the Synods and Presbyteries might be seen as havens for
controllers to gather…
If controllers are defined as those people who resist change, then
recent events would seem to indicate that there are lesser numbers of
controllers in Presbyteries (possibly), Synods (probably) and Assembly
(almost certainly) than there are in the general population of our
congregations. And certainly that has been my own experience. I don't
know if this is true, but my suspicion would be that those in specified
ministry would tend to have a lesser proportion of controllers (defined
as above), and so their larger representation in Presbytery, Synod and
Assembly would change the proportions.
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