Hi Ted,

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 8:32 PM
To: Xuxiaohu
Cc: Joe Touch; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for adoption of draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 6:13 AM, Xuxiaohu 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Thanks for your comment. Note that it’s WG adoption call rather than WGLC. If I 
understand it correctly, as long as it’s worthwhile to provide fine-grained 
load-balancing of Softwire service traffic by leveraging the UDP tunnels, the 
WG should adopt it and then work on it, e.g., addressing those issues as you 
mentioned.

The WG shouldn't adopt it unless there is a clear motivation for doing so, and 
no existing solutions to the same problem.   That is the case you need to make. 
  What various people are saying is that they don't believe you have made that 
case.   That is how it appears to me as well.


There are existing solutions to the same problem (i.e., how to improve the 
load-balancing efficiency for softwire traffic) and they are described in 
RFC5640. However, as it has been mentioned in the draft (see below), the 
existing solutions is are not adequate for efficient load balancing of Softwire 
service traffic across IP networks.



“[RFC5640<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5640>] describes a
   method for improving the load balancing efficiency in a network
   carrying Softwire Mesh service 
[RFC5565<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5565>] over Layer Two Tunneling
   Protocol - Version 3 (L2TPv3) [RFC3931<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3931>] 
and Generic Routing
   Encapsulation (GRE) [RFC2784<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2784>] 
encapsulations.  However, this method
   requires core routers to perform hash calculation on the "load-
   balancing" field contained in tunnel encapsulation headers (i.e., the
   Session ID field in L2TPv3 headers or the Key field in GRE headers),
   which is not widely supported by existing core routers.”

The motivation has been explained clearly in the draft as follows,

“Most existing routers in IP networks are already capable of
   distributing IP traffic "microflows" 
[RFC2474<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2474>] over ECMP paths and/or



Xu, et al.               Expires August 3, 2016                 [Page 2]
________________________________
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03#page-3>
Internet-Draft           Encapsulating IP in UDP            January 2016


   LAG based on the hash of the five-tuple of User Datagram Protocol
   (UDP) [RFC0768<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc0768>] and Transmission 
Control Protocol (TCP) packets
   (i.e., source IP address, destination IP address, source port,
   destination port, and protocol).  By encapsulating the Softwire
   service traffic into an UDP tunnel and using the source port of the
   UDP header as an entropy field, the existing load-balancing
   capability as mentioned above can be leveraged to provide fine-
   grained load-balancing of Softwire service traffic traffic over IP
   networks.  This is similar to why LISP 
[RFC6830<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6830>] , MPLS-in-UDP
   [RFC7510<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510>] and VXLAN 
[RFC7348<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7348>] use UDP encapsulation.
”
If the GRE key or L2TPv3 session ID based LB approaches as described in 
RFC5640, and even the flow label based approach were good enough, it seems hard 
to understand why the IETF community is so wild about using UDP as a tunnel 
technology (note that it’s not intended for IPv4 underlay case only. Instead, 
it’s intended for both IPv4 and IPv6 underlay cases), see the following 
examples:

p LISP [RFC6830]
p VXLAN [RFC7348]
p MPLS-in-UDP [RFC7510]
p TRILL-in-UDP [draft-ietf-trill-over-ip-05]
p NSH-in-UDP [draft-kumar-sfc-nsh-udp-transport]
p VXLAN-GPE 
[draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe<https://tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/>
 ]
p GENEVE 
[draft-ietf-nvo3-geneve<https://tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/draft-ietf-nvo3-geneve/> 
]
p GUE [draft-ietf-nvo3-gue<https://tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/draft-ietf-nvo3-gue/> 
]
p …

If the above motivation seems still not enough to you, could you please explain 
the reason why you believe it’s not enough?

Best regards,
Xiaohu
_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

Reply via email to