Hi Uri, all,

Agreed, thanks. I would add `draft-wang-ipsecme-kem-auth-ikev2` as a
separate KEM-based authentication bucket in the matrix, distinct from
RFC 9370 multiple key exchange and from the signature-authentication
path.

My updated mechanism buckets would be:

- RFC 8784 PPK;
- RFC 9867 PPK with `IKE_INTERMEDIATE`;
- RFC 9370 multiple key exchange;
- PQC signature authentication;
- KEM-based authentication, including `draft-wang-ipsecme-kem-auth-ikev2`;
- reliable IKEv2 transport;
- downgrade-prevention behavior;
- relevant deployment profiles such as CNSA 2.0.

For interop evidence, I would keep the first table lightweight:
implementation/version, peer/version, deployment shape, mechanism,
algorithm set, path conditions, and observed result/logs. That lets
people contribute useful rows even if they cannot publish full packet
captures or product-specific configuration.

Best,
Songbo

On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 02:27:19 +0000, "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Please add this draft to the list of mechanisms:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-ipsecme-kem-auth-ikev2/
>
> --
>
> V/R,
>
> Uri Blumenthal
>
> There are two ways to design a system. One is to make it so simple there are 
> obviously no deficiencies.
>
> The other is to make it so complex there are no obvious deficiencies.
>
> - C. A. R. Hoare
>
> I was a shepherd to fools
>
> Causelessly bold or afraid.
>
> They would not abide by my rules.
>
> Yet they escaped. For I stayed.
>
> R. Kipling “Epitaphs of the War. Convoy Escort”
>
> From: Songbo Bu <[email protected]>
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2026 at 21:23
> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Subject: [EXT] [Pqc] Re: [IPsec] Re: [EXTERNAL] PQC integration in 
> IPsec/IKEv2 - implementation experience and interop
>
> This Message Is From an External Sender
>
> This message came from outside the Laboratory.
>
> Hi Nick, Paul, all,
>
> This thread is useful.
>
> I agree with Paul that IPsec/IKEv2 interop probably does not need a 
> QUIC-style continuous public test harness to be useful.
>
> A lower-friction artifact may be enough for the first pass: a public interop 
> checklist and results matrix that records exactly what was tested, against 
> which peer, and what evidence was observed.
>
> For PQC-in-IKEv2 I would split the first matrix along a few axes:
>
> - implementation and version;
>
> - peer implementation and version;
>
> - deployment shape: site-to-site, remote access, or point-to-point;
>
> - mechanism: RFC 8784 PPK, RFC 9867 PPK with IKE_INTERMEDIATE, RFC 9370 
> multiple key exchange, PQC authentication, reliable IKEv2 transport, 
> downgrade prevention;
>
> - algorithm set: ML-KEM and ML-DSA parameter sets actually exercised;
>
> - path conditions: fragmentation, retransmission, NAT traversal, 
> rekey/CREATE_CHILD_SA, and failure diagnostics;
>
> - result evidence: packet trace summary, logs, negotiated transforms, and 
> failure reason where applicable.

>
> That would let vendors and open-source implementations participate at 
> different disclosure levels while still producing useful compatibility data.
>
> If there is interest, I can help turn this into a starter checklist or 
> markdown matrix for the IETF 126 hackathon discussion.
>
> Best,
> Songbo
>
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2026 19:26:21 -0400 (EDT), Paul Wouters [email protected] wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2026, Nick Grifka wrote:
>
> Also, I see in the past there have been PQC-related interop events (ex: 
> https://github.com/IETF-Hackathon/pqc-certificates). Is there any appetite 
> for an interop
> event for PQC in IPsec/IKEv2 amongst the community? I realize the nature of 
> many IPsec/IKEv2 products might not be suitable for a robust and efficient 
> interop
> framework (ex: https://github.com/quic-interop), so maybe that makes such an 
> event less practical.
>
> Traditionally these were held in the past (called “bake offs” but then
> IPR got into the way of that name). But since IKEv2/IPsec has strong
> opensource releases (libreswan and strongswan), interop testing usually
> happens against those implementations (and recently elvis-plus) and doesn’t
> require much gathering. Although if you will be at IETF-126, there will
> be *swan people and elvis-plus people who will gladly do some interop
> testing with you - especially during the hackathon days (Sat+Sun)
>
> Paul

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