Outside standards have been referenced for ages, certainly ISO and probably
others. Surely there is a common IETF policy on how to deal with this, in
particular the unfortunate practice of many other standards bodies to charge
significant sums of money for their standards.
paul
Internal Use - Confidential
From: John Mattsson <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2026 1:10 PM
To: Yoav Nir <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: [IPsec] Re: I-D Action:
draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo-01.txt
[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
Yoav Nir wrote:
>It makes sense that any "Using algorithm A in IKEv2" draft is going to have
>algorithm A as a normative reference
Yes. The adopted version had draft-longa-cfrg-frodokem as a normative reference.
As I said, I strongly oppose this change. Making a paywalled cryptographic
specification a normative reference is a very significant change. I do not
think the IETF should adopt or publish any documents with normative references
to paywalled cryptography. I therefore suggest that the authors submit a -02
revision reverting it.
Cheers,
John Preuß Mattsson
From: Yoav Nir <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Wednesday, 22 July 2026 at 18:57
To: John Mattsson
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [IPsec] I-D Action:
draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo-01.txt
[with no hats]
It makes sense that any "Using algorithm A in IKEv2" draft is going to have
algorithm A as a normative reference, because you can't implement the new
document without using the old document.
This is also what we did with RFC 8031 and 8420 - the last two times we had a
new algorithm in an IPsecME document.
Yoav
On 22 Jul 2026, at 18:58, John Mattsson
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
The -01 version makes the paywalled ISO reference normative. In the adopted -00
version, it was only informative. Keeping the paywalled reference informative
was a requirement for my support of adoption.
I strongly oppose this change, which, to my knowledge, has not been discussed
on the IPsec mailing list.
Cheers,
John Preuß Mattsson
On 2026-07-04, 17:42,
"[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>"
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Internet-Draft draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo-01.txt is now
available. It is a work item of the IP Security Maintenance and Extensions
(IPSECME) WG of the IETF.
Title: Post-quantum Key Exchange in IKEv2 with FrodoKEM
Authors: Guilin Wang
Leonie Bruckert
Valery Smyslov
Meiling Chen
Name: draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo-01.txt
Pages: 16
Dates: 2026-07-04
Abstract:
FrodoKEM is an unstructured lattice based Key Encapsulation Mechanism
(KEM), standardized by ISO. Compared to ML-KEM, it is considered
with more conservative security. This draft specifies how to use
FrodoKEM by itself or as an additional key exchange in IKEv2 along
with a traditional key exchange. These options enable to negotiate
IKE and Child SA keys that are safe against a Cryptographically
Relevant Quantum Computer (CRQC).
The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo/
[datatracker.ietf.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo/__;!!LpKI!jWyg0WpnTQWxc_G82C7WUnNb2O_j67FIJJj7SISxYkeEVT4rQewo3vxe57ezuzwBM3ehLes1YHkA-eS9UARdT32HK8_abvKu$>
There is also an HTMLized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo-01
[datatracker.ietf.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo-01__;!!LpKI!jWyg0WpnTQWxc_G82C7WUnNb2O_j67FIJJj7SISxYkeEVT4rQewo3vxe57ezuzwBM3ehLes1YHkA-eS9UARdT32HK2Le0ljy$>
A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo-01
[author-tools.ietf.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipsecme-hybrid-kem-ikev2-frodo-01__;!!LpKI!jWyg0WpnTQWxc_G82C7WUnNb2O_j67FIJJj7SISxYkeEVT4rQewo3vxe57ezuzwBM3ehLes1YHkA-eS9UARdT32HK6OerxEr$>
Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
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