Hi Silvia,

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 06:43:11PM +0000, Silvia Hagen wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I keep stumbling about that "recommendational wording" in RFC 2460 everytime 
> I teach it.
> 
> Couldn't we update RFC2460 and make this list a strict order?

good luck bringing this suggestion to IETF 6man... ;-)



> 
> I would want my firewall to notify me if the EHs in a packet do not follow 
> the list.

actually when we tested a number of commercial firewalls in late 2013 (results 
here: 
https://www.ernw.de/download/TR14_IPv6SecSummit_AAtlasis-RISC-project_results.pdf)
 it turned out that pretty much all of them follow a (from our perspective 
"reasonable approach", that is dropping "unusal combinations or number of 
ext_hdrs" by default. (which, of course, violates RFC 2460. but apparently all 
major vendors follow a line of reasoning similar to ours).
so, in short, firewalls "are not affected".


> And limiting the number of possible EHs per packet might be a good idea.

yes, that _would actually be_ a good idea.


I'm cross-posting this to v6ops as there's a related discussion going on right 
now. pls forgive this potential Usenet etiquette violation.

best

Enno




> 
> Silvia
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: ipv6-wg [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Benedikt 
> Stockebrand
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Mai 2015 18:39
> An: [email protected]
> Betreff: Re: [ipv6-wg] Extension Headers / Impact on Security Devices
> 
> Hi Enno and list,
> 
> Enno Rey <[email protected]> writes:
> 
> > hope everybody had a great #RIPE70 meeting. We did!
> > Many thanks to the organizers and chairs!
> 
> and thanks to the actual speakers as well the speakers we had to turn down 
> due to time constraints, too:-)
> 
> > If the chairs consider this appropriate we will happily give a 
> > presentation on this stuff in Bucharest or at another occasion.
> 
> Sounds good to me!
> 
> > - looking at the "liberty" RFC2460 provides as for ext_hdrs (wrt to 
> > their number, order[...]
> 
> Actually, as far as I'm concerned that's the real core of the problem.
> Or more specifically, the first two lines of RFC 2460, section 4.1:
> 
>    When more than one extension header is used in the same packet, it is
>    recommended that those headers appear in the following order:
> 
> followed on the next page by
> 
>    Each extension header should occur at most once, except for the
>    Destination Options header which should occur at most twice (once
>    before a Routing header and once before the upper-layer header).
> 
> Note in particular that these are not even RFC 2119 "SHOULD" or "RECOMMENDED" 
> and such.
> 
> The impact here is actually at least twofold: 
> 
> - It is impossible to implement this as a simple pipeline architecture
>   in hardware; at least for cases deviating from the "recommendations"
>   above this effectively becomes either excessively complex to implement
>   in hardware or an invitation to DoS when implemented in software on an
>   otherwise hardware router.
> 
> - As I understand it, at least some of the issues you have found are
>   effectively based on violating the second paragraph quoted, making it
>   impossible to come up with a lower bound on how long the header chain
>   can actually get and therefore leading to the fragmentation related
>   attacks and similar you have discovered.
> 
> The original idea was that the extension headers are processed strictly in 
> the order they occur, so one question to ask is if there is any valid reason 
> to violate these "recommendations" for other than malicious purposes.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>     Benedikt
> 
> -- 
> Benedikt Stockebrand,                   Stepladder IT Training+Consulting
> Dipl.-Inform.                           http://www.stepladder-it.com/
> 
>           Business Grade IPv6 --- Consulting, Training, Projects
> 
> BIVBlog---Benedikt's IT Video Blog: http://www.stepladder-it.com/bivblog/
> 
> 

-- 
Enno Rey

ERNW GmbH - Carl-Bosch-Str. 4 - 69115 Heidelberg - www.ernw.de
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