Hi Alan,

Could you please show us detailed evidences
or something about your sugestion?

We have raised the same kind of discussion at the very beginning of
Node Requirement activities (draft-okabe-ipv6-lcna-minreq-XX) about 2002.

  At that moment, the consensus was not to remove IPsec from standard
  by the state of the art. At least, that was my understanding.

  Here are the record of that discussion:
  http://www.taca.jp/internet-draft/feedback-01/summary.html
  http://www.taca.jp/internet-draft/feedback-01/maillist.html

  Then, we have tried to develop IPsec solution
  on small embedded devices with reasonable footprint/performance.

Through our experience, precisely speaking,
heavy part is not IPsec body
but key exchange protocols, e.g. ike and ikev2,
if you can use cryptographic hardware (ex. AES and SHA1).
(and crypt h/w seems common for small embedded devices, today.)

  By our IPsec implementation experience on 16-bits CPU system,
  object code size of IPsec body is not so big:
    SADB handling + Inbound/Outbound IPsec processing = 8kbytes

  However, we gave up to implement ike and ikev2 on embedded devices
  because of their complexity and the use of public-key crypt.

  Instead, we standardized Kerberos based IPsec key exchange protocol
  as KINK (RFC4430) with cisco people. 
  Roughly speaking, KINK can be implemented with small footprint (45kbytes)
  and reasonable processing time (70msec/exchange, w/o waiting time)
  on 16-bits CPU system.

  The following paper shows some of data:
  http://hiroshi1.hongo.wide.ad.jp/hiroshi/papers/2007/indin2007-Okabe.pdf

I understand that our approach may be not universal but specific.
However, for me, your sugestion seems too rough to change the consensus.
I would be happy if I see your evidence.

I hope that the records and the experiences described above
helps the discussion.

Thanks,

From: Alain Durand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Making IPsec *not* mandatory in Node Requirement ( was Re: Updates to 
Node Requirements-bis (UNCLASSIFIED))
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:41:37 +0800

> The latest draft: draft-ietf-6man-node-req-bis-00.txt
> still lists IPsec as mandatory to implement.
> 
> As I mentioned last IETF meeting, this is creating a problem for certain
> kind of devices, like cable modems, who have a very limited memory
> footprint. Those devices operate in an environment where IPsec is not used
> and mandating its implementation has a serious cost: it means that legacy
> devices cannot be upgraded to IPv6...
> 
> In DOCSIS 3.0, the decision was to NOT require IPsec implementation on those
> devices. I'm sure other environment have made or will make similar choices.
> 
> Moreover, to make the point more general, we are specifying/buying many
> other types of devices where we know that IPsec will never be used. Why
> should the vendor of those devices have to implement it? Because one day I
> might decide to deploy it? IMHO, this is not a good think, because in the
> meantime, I will have to run extra code which means extra bugs, more memory
> and more risks of miss-configuration.
> 
> I would like to suggest that the node requirements remove any mention of
> IPsec being mandatory to implement and instead includes text in the line of:
> "if you are going to implement IPsec, here is what you should/must do".
> 
>   - Alain.

----- Nobuo Okabe (Yokogawa Electric Corporation)
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