There seems to be multi-hour delays to the [email protected] mailing address, a 
copy for reference. I'll make sure all future replies are to [email protected].


----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: Mark Smith <[email protected]>
> To: Andrew McGregor <[email protected]>
> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013 6:31 PM
> Subject: Re: "MLDv2 Procedures for Link-Layer Unicast Delivery of Multicast"
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Thanks very much for your review and comments.
> 
> 
> 
>> ________________________________
>>  From: Andrew McGregor <[email protected]>
>> To: Mark Smith <[email protected]> 
>> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> 
>> Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013 5:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: "MLDv2 Procedures for Link-Layer Unicast Delivery of 
> Multicast"
>> 
>> 
>> Isn't this something that could be done entirely at the sub-IP layer for 
> link technologies where this is an issue?  I'd argue that all multicast in 
> 802.11 is badly broken, and should be fixed at that layer (multicast can be 
> more 
> than 50x slower than unicast, and packet loss can approach 80% while unicast 
> is 
> working fine... this is not good).
>> 
>> 
>> Overcoming 802.11 multicast performance limitations is the main reason for 
> what I've proposed, however I think there are a number of other advantages 
> even when this technique is used on non-802.11 link-layers.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I don't know if MLDv2 snooping is available or even possible on 802.11 
> APs. This technique would fill that gap if not.
>> 
>> 
>> That said, perhaps there is call for doing multicast fan-out at the IP layer 
> as well, for cases where the underlying link has 802.11-like multicast 
> characteristics that cannot be fixed for whatever reason.  Perhaps the IETF 
> should even suggest that IPv6 over 802.11 should switch to this proposal, as 
> it 
> would improve performance dramatically while the 802.11 layer remains 
> unfixed; 
> there will be legacy APs around for a very long time.
>> 
>> 
>> I think the advantage of doing it at layer 3 are that it can be applied to 
> any link-layer, including future ones; doesn't require layer violations as 
> doing it at the sub-IP layer would/does, as ND has complete knowledge of 
> layer 
> 3/layer2 mappings, and MLDv2 can have complete knowledge of the link-local 
> layer 
> 3 addresses of its listeners; has some security value by increasing data 
> confidentiality compared to link-layer multicasts; and will probably benefit 
> mobile devices with batteries by reducing the amount of multicasts they end 
> up 
> ignoring.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Mark.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Mark Smith 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> The following is inspired by some work I did in around 2010/2011 on a 
> multicast TV service, where residential customers with Wifi networks suffered 
> from performance problems, and had to be advised to buy ethernet over power 
> devices if they couldn't run wired ethernet to the STB attached to their TV.
>>> 
>>> I've done some experiments on my home wifi network, using VLC, and 
> switching between multicast and unicast IPv6 to test the concept. The wifi 
> performance issues disappear when the video is delivered via unicast UDP. (If 
> people want to play with VLC and IPv6 multicast, email me off-list, as there 
> are 
> a few issues e.g. the GUI doesn't accept some of the IPv6 multicast 
> parameters that the command line does).
>>> 
>>> I think there is a possibility the technique could also be applied to 
> IGMPv3/ARP, although it depends on whether ARP has been implemented in a 
> similar 
> manner to IPv6 ND (e.g. an ARP equivalent to NUD). My understanding is that 
> Linux has implemented ARP this way. I'll do some more research to verify 
> this.
>>> 
>>> I though I'd post it to see if there is merit in the idea and it is 
> worth spending more of my time on. I looked for a IETF group more suitable to 
> this, but didn't seem to be able to find one. If there is one, please let me 
> know.
>>> 
>>> Review and comments most appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much,
>>> Mark.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>>>>  From: "[email protected]" 
> <[email protected]>
>>>>  To: [email protected]
>>>>  Cc:
>>>>  Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013 1:45 PM
>>>>  Subject: New Version Notification for 
> draft-smith-mldv2-link-unicast-00.txt
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  A new version of I-D, draft-smith-mldv2-link-unicast-00.txt
>>>>  has been successfully submitted by Mark Smith and posted to the
>>>>  IETF repository.
>>>> 
>>>>  Filename:     draft-smith-mldv2-link-unicast
>>>>  Revision:     00
>>>>  Title:         MLDv2 Procedures for Link-Layer Unicast Delivery of 
> Multicast
>>>>  IPv6
>>>>  Creation date:     2013-03-29
>>>>  Group:         Individual Submission
>>>>  Number of pages: 7
>>>>  URL:           
>>>> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-smith-mldv2-link-unicast-00.txt
>>>>  Status:          
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-smith-mldv2-link-unicast
>>>>  Htmlized:        
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-mldv2-link-unicast-00
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  Abstract:
>>>>     Some multi-access link-layer technologies typically not provide 
> good
>>>>     IPv6 multicast performance, using link-layer multicasts, when 
> the
>>>>     volume of multicast traffic is significant.  It would be 
> possible to
>>>>     replicate and then link-layer unicast multicast IPv6 traffic to
>>>>     interested listeners to overcome these link-layer performance
>>>>     limitations.  This memo describes MLDv2 and IPv6 neighbor 
> discovery
>>>>     procedures to support link-layer unicast delivery of multicast 
> IPv6
>>>>     traffic.
>>>> 
>>>>                                                                      
>            
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  The IETF Secretariat
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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