Hi Manuel-san and Dominig-san,

"If community allows us to support multiple shell in one compositor and 
xdg-shell became standard shell in Weston, I can support fall back feature to 
xdg_shell when client doesn't support ivi-application. In this case, 
get_xdg_surface and other main protocol can be supported."

>That would be great ! Thanks a lot for your proposal. (regarding upstream 
>XDG-Shell, it is supposed to be totally stabilized in Weston 1.7. I 
>effectively have read messages were it was said that xdg-shell would replace 
>wl_shell someday ; the current pro is that it has a lot more features).

Please let me know your ideas; It is acceptable by community? Ivi-shell 
supports ivi-application.xml and some parts of xdg-shell.xml? 

BR,
Nobuhiko Tanibata 


From: Manuel Bachmann [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 8:49 PM
To: Tanibata, Nobuhiko (ADITJ/SWG)
Cc: Counihan, Tom; Dominig ar Foll (Intel OTC); [email protected]; Ishikawa, 
Tetsuri (ADITJ/SWG)
Subject: Re: [RFC] IVI-Shell, Wayland, and middleware API unification

Hi Janos, Tanibata-San, and thanks for your very detailed responses !

Janos,

"In the ICO paradigm applications should not be able to show themselves, get on 
the top, or go full-size unconditionally, without the approval of the managing 
authority, ie.  the HomeScreen /system-controller.
From this respect executing those request unconditionally in IVI shell does not 
appear to be very wise. Those request should be forwarded to the managing 
authority for consideration rather than execute them unconditionally. The 
ivi-controller interface is quite suitable for this."

"do not implement any hardwired policies for the wl- and xdg-shell calls, eg. 
map the xdg_surface_set_minimized => ivi_layout_surfaceSetVisibility, deliver 
the requests to the managing authority over ivi-controller interface."

Thanks to your answer, I think I understand ; and this explains better the 
separation between the "ivi-shell" and "ivi-layout" modules.
The map call of "xdg_surface_set_minimized()" was arbitray on my part, and 
could very well be delivered to ivi-controller component as you describe. I 
will take a look at it ; until then, I just disabled the call in my code base.

"convince upstream folks about the multiple shell support (once it has been 
already there but it was removed). If GENIVI folks do not  want it we could 
make the wl- and/or xdg-shell support as compile-time option."

Sure, a flag such as "--enable-xdg-shell" or "--enable-xdg-wrapper" could 
easily be implemented. I also get the feeling that this would help ICO 
integration in the future (because if I understand correctly, wl_shell support 
in only in the Tizen repository currently ; having a fallback shell upstream 
would reduce the delta). But Tanibata-San, who develops and maintains 
IVI-Shell, may also have an opinion on this :-).

Tanibata-San,

" - If xdg-shell support, I would be great to merge them into one.
  - ivi-application.surface_create(ivi_id,surface) to map ID with wl_surface
  - allow to load ivi-layout module to add ivi-features.
  - security model not to allow client application to use a part of xdg-shell 
protocol; interface to control e.g. position/size like 
xdg_surface_set_minimized.
    - In the future, ivi-controller shall be bound by only authorized manager 
like murphy or else. This is one of suggestion from Intel graphic engineer you 
may know."

Such a model may be elegant but also complicated for a first step. Regardind 
ivi-controller and murphy, I will take a look at it.

"If community allows us to support multiple shell in one compositor and 
xdg-shell became standard shell in Weston, I can support fall back feature to 
xdg_shell when client doesn't support ivi-application. In this case, 
get_xdg_surface and other main protocol can be supported."

That would be great ! Thanks a lot for your proposal. (regarding upstream 
XDG-Shell, it is supposed to be totally stabilized in Weston 1.7. I effectively 
have read messages were it was said that xdg-shell would replace wl_shell 
someday ; the current pro is that it has a lot more features).

"But other interface to control position or resize of the shell surface shall 
not be supported because of security reason e.g. application can control."

I totally understand your concern of not allowing direct access to the shell 
surface. It was an error on my side.  I just disabled the call to 
"ivi_layout_surface_set_Visibility" in the demo code 
(https://github.com/Tarnyko/weston-ivi-shell/commit/1e121f1e1a55553b6e1aa9afc7f73f06f774270a)
 so people do not get confused by this.
Best regarrds,

2014-09-15 2:29 GMT+02:00 Tanibata, Nobuhiko (ADITJ/SWG) 
<[email protected]>:
Hi Manual-san, Tom-san, Janos-san and Dominig-san,

Motivation of IVI-shell(ivi-application+ivi-layout internal
apis)+ivi-controller is to fit requirement and use case in automotive,
GENIVI.
So if a proposal can cover it, I think there is no concerning from
GENIVI.
Use case
- Layer/surface can be identified by Numeric ID. In automotive, it shall
be under stringently control by e.g. car maker to avoid malware.
- ivi-controller interface shall be bound by only authorized central
controller. Ivi-application protocol and ivi-controller protocol shall
be divided into two.
   I think the second is a little mentioned by Janos-san feedback.

So my proposal if I take account into Manual-san suggestion.
- If xdg-shell support, I would be great to merge them into one.
  - ivi-application.surface_create(ivi_id,surface) to map ID with
wl_surface
  - allow to load ivi-layout module to add ivi-features.
  - security model not to allow client application to use a part of
xdg-shell protocol; interface to control e.g. position/size like
xdg_surface_set_minimized.
    - In the future, ivi-controller shall be bound by only authorized
manager like murphy or else. This is one of suggestion from Intel
graphic engineer you may know.

Another option is the same as Janos-san,
If community allows us to support multiple shell in one compositor and
xdg-shell became standard shell in Weston, I can support fall back
feature to xdg_shell when client doesn't support ivi-application. In
this case, get_xdg_surface and other main protocol can be supported. But
other interface to control position or resize of the shell surface shall
not be supported because of security reason e.g. application can control
them by itself.

BR,
Nobuhiko Tanibata

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IVI [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Counihan,
Tom
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 1:06 AM
> To: Dominig ar Foll (Intel OTC); [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [RFC] IVI-Shell, Wayland, and middleware API unification
>
> Hi Dominig,
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IVI [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dominig
ar
> > Foll (Intel OTC)
> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 2:55 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [RFC] IVI-Shell, Wayland, and middleware API
unification
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > our motivation in investigating such option is driven by the fact
that
> > the acceptance of the IVI shell by the Wayland/Weston community, in
> > view of its integration upstream, is at best fairly remote at worse
> > unlikely, while XDG has already been adopted by the community and
accepted
> upstream.
>
> The motivation has logic based upon the assumption you describe.
However,
> when observing the wayland traffic, particularly the great work Manuel
and
> Tanibata have been pushing, I came away with a different opinion re
upstream
> acceptance.
> I confess I could be totally wrong, but would gladly take your input
to correct
> my understanding - the "worse unlikely" is a pretty grave scenario.
Can you
> direct me to where you base your opinion on? Did you mean for a
particular
> version, or in general you are skeptical of upstream acceptance?
>
>
> >
> > Manuel proposition would enable to expand the compatibility of
Genivi
> > (IVI-shell) to standard application.
> > The immediate interesting side effect is that tool kit such as Ozone
> > (crosswalk), efl or qt could work out of the box with their XDG
extensions.
>
> I was under the impression that Ozone was receiving some ivi shell
support
> - which would be very useful? Am I wrong?
>
https://github.com/01org/ozone-wayland/commit/a034a018b6ec317ec5559dcce6
> efec916ec40512
>
> >
> > I personally only see benefit, but a sorer look from a greater
> > community is valuable as we might have missed some hidden side
effect.
>
> Janos has followed with a compressive reply after this mail.
>
> Warm Regards
> Tom.
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-- 
Regards,

Manuel BACHMANN
Tizen Project
VANNES-FR
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