HI Tanibata-San,

"Please let me know your ideas; It is acceptable by community? Ivi-shell
supports ivi-application.xml and some parts of xdg-shell.xml?"

On my side, it looks totally acceptable.  As Janos suggests, maybe it
should just be a compile-time option (such as
"--enable-xdg-shell-compatibility", or something like this).

Regards,
Manuel

2014-09-16 1:56 GMT+02:00 Tanibata, Nobuhiko (ADITJ/SWG) <
[email protected]>:

> Hi Manuel-san and Dominig-san,
>
> "If community allows us to support multiple shell in one compositor and
> xdg-shell became standard shell in Weston, I can support fall back feature
> to xdg_shell when client doesn't support ivi-application. In this case,
> get_xdg_surface and other main protocol can be supported."
>
> >That would be great ! Thanks a lot for your proposal. (regarding upstream
> XDG-Shell, it is supposed to be totally stabilized in Weston 1.7. I
> effectively have read messages were it was said that xdg-shell would
> replace wl_shell someday ; the current pro is that it has a lot more
> features).
>
> Please let me know your ideas; It is acceptable by community? Ivi-shell
> supports ivi-application.xml and some parts of xdg-shell.xml?
>
> BR,
> Nobuhiko Tanibata
>
>
> From: Manuel Bachmann [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 8:49 PM
> To: Tanibata, Nobuhiko (ADITJ/SWG)
> Cc: Counihan, Tom; Dominig ar Foll (Intel OTC); [email protected];
> Ishikawa, Tetsuri (ADITJ/SWG)
> Subject: Re: [RFC] IVI-Shell, Wayland, and middleware API unification
>
> Hi Janos, Tanibata-San, and thanks for your very detailed responses !
>
> Janos,
>
> "In the ICO paradigm applications should not be able to show themselves,
> get on the top, or go full-size unconditionally, without the approval of
> the managing authority, ie.  the HomeScreen /system-controller.
> From this respect executing those request unconditionally in IVI shell
> does not appear to be very wise. Those request should be forwarded to the
> managing authority for consideration rather than execute them
> unconditionally. The ivi-controller interface is quite suitable for this."
>
> "do not implement any hardwired policies for the wl- and xdg-shell calls,
> eg. map the xdg_surface_set_minimized => ivi_layout_surfaceSetVisibility,
> deliver the requests to the managing authority over ivi-controller
> interface."
>
> Thanks to your answer, I think I understand ; and this explains better the
> separation between the "ivi-shell" and "ivi-layout" modules.
> The map call of "xdg_surface_set_minimized()" was arbitray on my part, and
> could very well be delivered to ivi-controller component as you describe. I
> will take a look at it ; until then, I just disabled the call in my code
> base.
>
> "convince upstream folks about the multiple shell support (once it has
> been already there but it was removed). If GENIVI folks do not  want it we
> could make the wl- and/or xdg-shell support as compile-time option."
>
> Sure, a flag such as "--enable-xdg-shell" or "--enable-xdg-wrapper" could
> easily be implemented. I also get the feeling that this would help ICO
> integration in the future (because if I understand correctly, wl_shell
> support in only in the Tizen repository currently ; having a fallback shell
> upstream would reduce the delta). But Tanibata-San, who develops and
> maintains IVI-Shell, may also have an opinion on this :-).
>
> Tanibata-San,
>
> " - If xdg-shell support, I would be great to merge them into one.
>   - ivi-application.surface_create(ivi_id,surface) to map ID with
> wl_surface
>   - allow to load ivi-layout module to add ivi-features.
>   - security model not to allow client application to use a part of
> xdg-shell protocol; interface to control e.g. position/size like
> xdg_surface_set_minimized.
>     - In the future, ivi-controller shall be bound by only authorized
> manager like murphy or else. This is one of suggestion from Intel graphic
> engineer you may know."
>
> Such a model may be elegant but also complicated for a first step.
> Regardind ivi-controller and murphy, I will take a look at it.
>
> "If community allows us to support multiple shell in one compositor and
> xdg-shell became standard shell in Weston, I can support fall back feature
> to xdg_shell when client doesn't support ivi-application. In this case,
> get_xdg_surface and other main protocol can be supported."
>
> That would be great ! Thanks a lot for your proposal. (regarding upstream
> XDG-Shell, it is supposed to be totally stabilized in Weston 1.7. I
> effectively have read messages were it was said that xdg-shell would
> replace wl_shell someday ; the current pro is that it has a lot more
> features).
>
> "But other interface to control position or resize of the shell surface
> shall not be supported because of security reason e.g. application can
> control."
>
> I totally understand your concern of not allowing direct access to the
> shell surface. It was an error on my side.  I just disabled the call to
> "ivi_layout_surface_set_Visibility" in the demo code (
> https://github.com/Tarnyko/weston-ivi-shell/commit/1e121f1e1a55553b6e1aa9afc7f73f06f774270a)
> so people do not get confused by this.
> Best regarrds,
>
> 2014-09-15 2:29 GMT+02:00 Tanibata, Nobuhiko (ADITJ/SWG) <
> [email protected]>:
> Hi Manual-san, Tom-san, Janos-san and Dominig-san,
>
> Motivation of IVI-shell(ivi-application+ivi-layout internal
> apis)+ivi-controller is to fit requirement and use case in automotive,
> GENIVI.
> So if a proposal can cover it, I think there is no concerning from
> GENIVI.
> Use case
> - Layer/surface can be identified by Numeric ID. In automotive, it shall
> be under stringently control by e.g. car maker to avoid malware.
> - ivi-controller interface shall be bound by only authorized central
> controller. Ivi-application protocol and ivi-controller protocol shall
> be divided into two.
>    I think the second is a little mentioned by Janos-san feedback.
>
> So my proposal if I take account into Manual-san suggestion.
> - If xdg-shell support, I would be great to merge them into one.
>   - ivi-application.surface_create(ivi_id,surface) to map ID with
> wl_surface
>   - allow to load ivi-layout module to add ivi-features.
>   - security model not to allow client application to use a part of
> xdg-shell protocol; interface to control e.g. position/size like
> xdg_surface_set_minimized.
>     - In the future, ivi-controller shall be bound by only authorized
> manager like murphy or else. This is one of suggestion from Intel
> graphic engineer you may know.
>
> Another option is the same as Janos-san,
> If community allows us to support multiple shell in one compositor and
> xdg-shell became standard shell in Weston, I can support fall back
> feature to xdg_shell when client doesn't support ivi-application. In
> this case, get_xdg_surface and other main protocol can be supported. But
> other interface to control position or resize of the shell surface shall
> not be supported because of security reason e.g. application can control
> them by itself.
>
> BR,
> Nobuhiko Tanibata
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IVI [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Counihan,
> Tom
> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 1:06 AM
> > To: Dominig ar Foll (Intel OTC); [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [RFC] IVI-Shell, Wayland, and middleware API unification
> >
> > Hi Dominig,
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: IVI [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dominig
> ar
> > > Foll (Intel OTC)
> > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 2:55 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: [RFC] IVI-Shell, Wayland, and middleware API
> unification
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > our motivation in investigating such option is driven by the fact
> that
> > > the acceptance of the IVI shell by the Wayland/Weston community, in
> > > view of its integration upstream, is at best fairly remote at worse
> > > unlikely, while XDG has already been adopted by the community and
> accepted
> > upstream.
> >
> > The motivation has logic based upon the assumption you describe.
> However,
> > when observing the wayland traffic, particularly the great work Manuel
> and
> > Tanibata have been pushing, I came away with a different opinion re
> upstream
> > acceptance.
> > I confess I could be totally wrong, but would gladly take your input
> to correct
> > my understanding - the "worse unlikely" is a pretty grave scenario.
> Can you
> > direct me to where you base your opinion on? Did you mean for a
> particular
> > version, or in general you are skeptical of upstream acceptance?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Manuel proposition would enable to expand the compatibility of
> Genivi
> > > (IVI-shell) to standard application.
> > > The immediate interesting side effect is that tool kit such as Ozone
> > > (crosswalk), efl or qt could work out of the box with their XDG
> extensions.
> >
> > I was under the impression that Ozone was receiving some ivi shell
> support
> > - which would be very useful? Am I wrong?
> >
> https://github.com/01org/ozone-wayland/commit/a034a018b6ec317ec5559dcce6
> > efec916ec40512
> >
> > >
> > > I personally only see benefit, but a sorer look from a greater
> > > community is valuable as we might have missed some hidden side
> effect.
> >
> > Janos has followed with a compressive reply after this mail.
> >
> > Warm Regards
> > Tom.
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Manuel BACHMANN
> Tizen Project
> VANNES-FR
>



-- 
Regards,



*Manuel BACHMANN Tizen Project VANNES-FR*
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