Are you using VRML97 to load your vrml model?
Did you get it running as applet in the browser?
How?
I always get this:
java.security.AccessControlException: access denied
(java.lang.RuntimePermission createClassLoader)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paraskevas Orfanides" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] How to REALLY get humanoid content into a Java3D
application?
> I actually have been working in a team with a similar project for the last
> year. Programming th humanoid wasn't quite my project, however, I did
> construct the graphics. We used Poser4 to construct the human. From
there
> I exprorted it in 3ds formmat. For the purpose of our program, we wanted
> each part (i.e. UpperArm, ForeArm, Head, Torso, etc) to be one object,
> while the joints were defined with one point. Then we could handle the
> movement by rotating the body part around its joint. This was done in
> 3dmax. After putting the body-parts in the right hierarchy, this worked
> very well, but it CAN be slow. I should mention, though, that our program
> needed only one humanoid of very good quality (a few THOUSANTS vertices).
> After trying several formats, we concluded that VRML97 was the best.
> However, we never tried the 3ds loader itself.
> In any case, the power of 3dmax is great, and if you can see yourself
> modifying graphics in the future, I would highly recommend that you get
it.
> I think it's worth its money. It can export in many different formats
and
> you can always download add-ons to export in even more! Also, it's
capable
> of doing anything you want! However, if you are interested in designing
> humanoids, Poser4 is certainly easier to use and faster. Its powers are
> very limited, but you can create new high-poly models in no time. Again,
I
> would recommend, though, that you first export these models to 3dmax and
> use the "optimize" tool on them about 3 or 4 times. This will take
> polygons that are approximately lined up and connect them while getting
rid
> of excess vertices. You can easily take a 4000+ model and make a ~1500
> vertices model just by clicking a button a few times!
> Anyway, if you tell me how you would like your humanoid to be constructed
> (i.e. bones&skin, parts and joints, a plain model with textures, or
> anything else), I might be able to construct something for you so that you
> test it out. However, I have been having problems with it recently, so I
> may need to take some time until I fix it before I can send you
anything...
> Paris
>
> --- "Rudolf J.C. Buijs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Dave, John et al. -
> >
> > Thanks for all the replies. They are very helpful. I gather that you are
> > using 3dmax to define your models. And either StarFire's 3ds loader or a
> > custom file loader to get them into Java3D.
> >
> > Is there any way I could get my hands on a sample humanoid model (incl
> > textures) to see if I can actually import it? I can only justify
> > purchasing
> > max if I can demonstrate that it's suitable for our purpose and worth
the
> > investment.
> >
> > How do you like 3dmax for this purpose? Will I need any other add-ons or
> > tools? Or does anyone have other good (& cheaper) experiences?
> >
> > Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Many thanks - Rudolf
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion list for Java 3D API
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Wright
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 14:35
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] How to REALLY get humanoid content into a Java
> > 3Dapplication?
> >
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > >From what I experienced in Everquest their zones outright crash with
175
> > to 200 players (they did a year ago, they seem better now). I'm not
> > sure how much level of detail they are doing to know how many humanoids
> > might actually be visible at a time. I'd agree with you that even with
> > a top end machine if there are about 30-40 humanoids within view the
> > frame rate becomes "unacceptable". I'm hoping that with good level of
> > detail adjustments we could actually support a player seeing an "army"
> > of 50 or 100 marching. Again I agree that communications issues are
> > more likely a limitation than our 3D rendering.
> >
> > - John
> >
> > "Yazel, David J." wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes true. We have hopes to do level of detail and dynamically adjust
> > the
> > > smoothness of the animation as the number of animated characters
> > increase.
> > > Already our own "shapes" have built in progressive meshing in that for
> > any
> > > shape we can ask for it to adjust to N percent of its total
complexity.
> > > Since the progressive mesh collapse order is pre-calculated and the
> > vertices
> > > re-ordered to match, it is extremely fast. In my experience everquest
> > can't
> > > handle more than about 40 characters at one time with exceptable frame
> > > rates, and you have to turn off particles. But what we are thinking
is
> > that
> > > the limiting factor of many characters being near each other will be
> > comm
> > > lag from the server rather than graphics.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: John Wright[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Reply To: Discussion list for Java 3D API
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:42 AM
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] How to REALLY get humanoid content into a
> > Java
> > > > 3Dapplication?
> > > >
> > > > Dave,
> > > >
> > > > Sure, for a single 500 vertex model it isn't a concern (with decent
> > > > hardware). My concerns are if those models shift up to say 1000
> > vertices
> > > > (better quality) and you put 100 or 200 of them in a scene! (not to
> > say
> > > > that we won't have problems with our method either). Quake,
> > Halflife,
> > > > etc all use low polygon count models and rarely have more than a few
> > > > models in the scene at a time. It sure would be nice if Verant
would
> > > > comment on how they do this with Everquest.
> > > >
> > > > I agree, at this point there isn't much choice than to just make an
> > > > educated guess and try it out.
> > > >
> > > > - John
> > > >
> > > > "Yazel, David J." wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Its too early to tell on speed, but since the vertex delta's are
> > > > > pre-computed on a per key-frame bases, the only calculation is the
> > > > > interpolation per frame for each vertex. On a 400-500 vertex
model
> > this
> > > > > time is negligible. This is the same method used by quake and
> > halflife
> > > > to
> > > > > great effect. We are in fact experimenting with half-life models
> > > > converted
> > > > > using 3d Exploration. As always we are just plodding along trying
> > > > different
> > > > > things. Our thought is also to attempt to "attach" items to the
> > model
> > > > using
> > > > > control vertices, where for example you can specify two of the
hand
> > > > vertices
> > > > > as anchors for items that are held, then use a single
> > transformation
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > item to synchroize with the animated char. That way we can have
> > smooth
> > > > > animations of flexible characters, with rigid objects attached.
But
> > like
> > > > > John said, we will have to see if its fast enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > From: John Wright[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > Reply To: Discussion list for Java 3D API
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:34 AM
> > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] How to REALLY get humanoid content
> > into a
> > > > Java
> > > > > > 3Dapplication?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As David said, it's not exactly a simple task. Our 3DS loader
> > > > certainly
> > > > > > can import excellent looking models (there are some quirks and
my
> > 3D
> > > > > > modelers are getting better and better at making models that
> > work)
> > but
> > > > > > animating them is possible in a couple different ways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To animate in real time you are going to have to sacrifice some
> > > > quality
> > > > > > until the hardware gets a LOT faster. Moving a few joints (what
> > we
> > > > > > intend to do) shouldn't be too bad but won't do the nice
> > deformations
> > > > of
> > > > > > a "Hollywood" style animation (keep in mind that we can't do in
> > real
> > > > > > time what takes Max hours to generate a couple minute clip).
I'm
> > > > > > intrigued that David states they are going with morphing (my
> > intuition
> > > > > > tells me that is going to be too slow / CPU intensive).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - John Wright
> > > > > > Starfire Research
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are a few people here with real-world experience, and
> > they
> > are
> > > > > > > probably all different experiences :) www.roboforge.com is an
> > > > > > application
> > > > > > > using Java3d and has quite nice animation. You can bring a
> > > > non-animated
> > > > > > > humanoid into Java3d very easily using Starfire Lab's 3ds
> > loader.
> > I
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > stay away from VRML in java3d as a primary loader unless you
> > plan
> > on
> > > > > > writing
> > > > > > > your own loader. Java3d does not have complex humanoid
> > animation
> > > > built
> > > > > > in.
> > > > > > > Even if you want to do something as simple as single skin
> > keyframe
> > > > > > morphing
> > > > > > > you have a job ahead of you. We have just started work on this
> > > > > > ourselves.
> > > > > > > The path we are starting to experiment with is to model in
> > 3dmax,
> > > > use
> > > > > > > character studio to define the animation, use 3d exploration
to
> > read
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > model and animations and then use the 3d exploration sdk to
> > write
> > > > out
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > own file format. Inside of java3d we would be using a loader
> > which
> > > > can
> > > > > > > read our own file format and then creating animation classes
> > which
> > > > morph
> > > > > > > between keyframes using geometry by reference and the geometry
> > > > updator
> > > > > > > callbacks. If you want to do skin and bones directly inside
> > java3d
> > > > then
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > is more difficult because you need to handle the
> > transformations
> > > > > > yourself.
> > > > > > > I think it would be slow to set up an animation using a
> > hierarchy
> > of
> > > > > > > transform3d's but you could try.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good luck. I know there are people on this list who have this
> > > > working,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > no one can/will post their code on it, so you will have to
> > figure
> > it
> > > > out
> > > > > > > unfortunately.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dave Yazel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Rudolf J.C. Buijs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:24 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [JAVA3D] How to REALLY get humanoid content into a
> > Java
> > 3D
> > > > > > > application?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi everyone -
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are considering Java 3D for development of a new
application
> > > > which
> > > > > > > involves animation of humanoids with motion capture data.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is a must-have: the humanoids MUST look good and
> > realistic!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would think that it would be best to use a 3rd party tool to
> > > > define
> > > > > > > texture-mapped geometry, export this to VRML (or .3DS etc) and
> > use
> > > > any
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the loaders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's a good way of going about this? I am thinking of
content
> > > > creation
> > > > > > > packages like Poser or 3D Studio Max and exporting to VRML,
but
> > I
> > > > don't
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > for a fact that it will work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does anyone have REAL-WORLD experience with this? What
software
> > are
> > > > you
> > > > > > > using that will actually allow creation of humanoids and
import
> > them
> > > > > > into a
> > > > > > > Java 3D application? Preferably in the H-ANIM 1.1 standard if
> > that's
> > > > > > > possible. Which loaders to use for Java 3D? Any gotcha's?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is what I have so far: I've searched the web for loaders
> > (found
> > > > and
> > > > > > > tried latest X3D) and VRML models (H-ANIM 1.1 preferably), but
> > so
> > > > far I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > been unsuccessful in importing even one humanoid (every single
> > VRML
> > > > > > model I
> > > > > > > managed to find runs into problems with PROTO's, I have some
> > models
> > > > > > > available if anyone else cares to try, the demo VRML runs fine
> > on
> > my
> > > > > > > system).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Many thanks in advance and many regards - Rudolf
> >
> >
>
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>
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