There are a number of terms here that are getting overloaded. First is
lightweight. Most people refer to lightweight in the Java world to refer
to Swing's lightweight components. Lightweight components have the property
that parent/child window trees share the same native window resource for
rendering. This is problematic for Java 3D because of accelerated rendering.
Both OpenGL and DirectX assume that they have exclusive access to the window.
This breaks Swing's notion of sharing, but it is the tradeoff we made for
getting hardware acceleration.
The other issue is having a pure Java version of Java 3D that uses Java 2D
as it's window system interface. This has been on our list of future
features since the inception of Java 3D. Unfortunately, there has always
been other features that have been of higher priority. The positive side
of a pure Java version of Java 3D is that some platforms could have Java 3D
working fairly quickly. Also, this is a way for Java 3D to interact more
cleanly with Swing. However, there are still some problems. Java 3D
requires JDK 1.2. If the platform doesn't have it, it won't work. Also,
software rendering may be usefull in some limited cases, but for the most
part becomes uninteresting fairly quickly. And, this still doesn't solve
the deployment problem completely.
I hope this gives a little insight into these problems.
Doug Twilleager
Sun Microsystems
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Subject: [JAVA3D] Lightweight Java 3D
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>Is there anyone out there thinking about doing some kind of Java 3D to Java
>2D conversion?
>
>Maybe "conversion" isn't the right word. I've seen some 3D stuff done with
>Java 2D. For what it was, it wasn't too bad. I am wondering if there is
>any thought about having an option in Java 3D to either use Hardware
>acceleration, as it does today, or switch to using software rendering
>(using Java 2D?) The performance may be horrible, but for very simple scene
>graphs, you might get acceptable performance. Would this allow you to have
>a lightweight version of Java 3D.
>
>Bob Gray
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: J. Lee Dixon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:19 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] Dark CAVES
>
>
>You can't really run Java3D in an "emulation" mode. That would really
>mean that Java3D would have to include software-only versions of all the
>3D calls it makes. You CAN put DirectX in emulation mode, and on Linux
>you can use Mesa instead of OpenGL for emulation, but you can't run
>Java3D on Macs. Period. It has not been done for Macs because Macs do
>not have Java 2 support (yet). When they do (Mac OS X), Java3D will
>have to been written to use the OpenGL on Macs.
>
>In conclusion, Java3D does not support lightweight functionality at all,
>and thus cannot "run on any system".
>
>(Any comments Sun?)
>
>-Lee
>
>J. Lee Dixon
>SAIC - Celebration, FL
>407-566-1438
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL: LeeOrlando
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Yazel, David J. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:54 AM
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] Dark CAVES
>>
>>
>> Hard to get hardware accelleration and be "lightweight" at
>> the same time.
>> You can always run java3d using emulation mode, which is basically a
>> software redering device, I would expect that to run on any
>> system. But if
>> you want hardware acelleration then you need to talk to
>> graphics cards, and
>> for that you need to talk to a system level driver. Since
>> drivers are OS
>> dependant, you are at the mercy of the system manufacturer to
>> provide the
>> bridge from the driver to the card. OpenGL and DirectX are
>> just ways to
>> talk to hardware cards in consistant and well understood way.
>> If a hardware
>> manufacturer won't support opengl or directx to the minimum require
>> specification levels needed for java3d to run in accellerated
>> modes, I am
>> not sure what anyone, even Sun, can do about it.
>>
>> > ----------
>> > From: Kyle Wayne Kelly[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > Reply To: Discussion list for Java 3D API
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 9:55 AM
>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] Dark CAVES
>> >
>> > Why doesn't Sun write a lightweight Java3D? It would work on all
>> > platforms. Swing is lightweight, why not Java3D. Isn't system
>> > independence Java's true philosophy.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Bob Gray
>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 8:48 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] Dark CAVES
>> >
>> >
>> > This is bad news for me. I was just about to search
>> the Java3D
>> > archives for the notes on using Java 3D in a CAVE on SGI
>> hardware. I have
>> > an opportunity to use a CAVE and thought I'd be able to use
>> my existing
>> > Java 3D programs.......
>> >
>> > From this note, it seems to say that the SGI folks(?)
>> need to port
>> > Java 3D to their SGI system(?). This isn't in the Java 3D
>> development
>> > team's area to do?
>> >
>> > I would certainly like more info on this subject.
>> >
>> > Bob Gray
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Manuel Oliveira [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 8:15 AM
>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Subject: [JAVA3D] Dark CAVES
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > A while back I inquired about using Java3D to manage
>> a CAVE with SGI
>> >
>> > hardware. The people from SUN were helpful and
>> pointed out the need
>> > for
>> > Java3D 1.2 (current version on SGI is 1.1.3).
>> >
>> > After some delay, I got a reply from the SGI folks. It was not
>> > encouraging.
>> > Basically, Java3D 1.2 does not seem a priority in
>> their TODO list.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Manuel
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
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