Dick, I completely agree with you. It should be called out and people should make purchasing decisions based on that.
However, my point about perspective is that Microsoft, probably, does not see it as wrong at all. They believe in their solution (whatever their motives) and have used under handed tactics to make it a reality. I think it is wrong, but they don't. There are plenty of Machiavellians out there who believe that the tactics are acceptable if the result is right. I don't, but that is my opinion. In Microsoft's case, they are a business first (composed of citizens that should be doing the right thing). However, as a business, anything that increases their profits (and does not negatively affect their future profits) is the right move. It is our job to not buy products from those that take these types of actions. Sometimes, in our media driven world, it is hard to pin down these things so that the public can take drastic enough action to matter. It is also our job to hold the standards bodies' feet to the fire. If they are taking bribes, then there needs to be drastic action in that organization. People should be fired or organizations disbanded. Frankly, our biggest beef should be with them. LES On Jul 28, 7:23 pm, Dick Wall <[email protected]> wrote: > While we are on the subject of engaging in a constructive dialog, I > similarly cannot let this statement go: > > "The > problem is with anyone that expects a company to act in anything other > than self interest. To expect anything different is foolish. > Frankly, what Microsoft did with ooxml is only evil if you are not a > Microsoft shareholder. :) It's all perspective." > > I believe it is our duty to keep a watch on this kind of behavior and > call attention to it when it occurs. Perhaps if enough stink is raised > about the kind of questionable business practices involved, that will > affect Microsoft's bottom line and that alone will affect the > shareholders value. > > Moreover, I totally disagree that becoming a microsoft stakeholder > suddenly makes this kind of terrible behavior OK. I have mutual funds > that no doubt have Microsoft stock in them somewhere, but the kind of > stuff Microsoft pulled with OOXML is unconscionable regardless of > whether they hide behind the shareholder value argument. Everyone has > a choice, companies too - how about taking the money they used to ram > this travesty through ISO and instead make their stuff better so that > people want to use it instead of being forced to, or tricked into it? > > And the flaw with the argument is, of course, that while nonsense like > this might have a short term positive effect on MS stock, the overall > damage done by once again falling back into incompatible document > formats for public documents (yes - that's why they pushed it through > - to stop the bleeding from Governments and Countries who were opening > up to ODF), the long term cost will likely be a great deal higher, and > harder to measure of course. > > On Jul 28, 2:17 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Ok, I have gotta dive into this. You are correct that Gore did not > > claim to have "invented" the internet. However, he tried, in his > > statement, to take credit for it's invention as a political grand > > stand. He "acted stupidly". :) It was like me taking credit for > > paving the roads. Yes, my money payed for some infinitely small piece > > of highway somewhere, but it would be ridiculous for me to make a > > claim (especially for political gain) that I was responsible for > > creating the interstate system (or even the road outside my house). > > Yes, it is overplayed, but it was a really funny political mistake. > > Both sides make them (remember potatoe?). Frankly, they are all well > > intentioned and accomplish very little that actually is useful in my > > life (except asking for bigger checks to increase the size of my > > contribution to the interstate system :)). Such is the nature of > > government. I digress.... > > > Microsoft has earned an industry reputation over the years for being > > ruthless in business. They have a long history of business moves that > > are considered unethical. They practically invented the practice of > > entering into legal agreements with no intention to fulfill their > > obligations (the so sue me style :)). However, that is not unique to > > them. Most large businesses look to the bottom line and not toward > > the "right thing". So, when people say they are evil. Many times > > they are right. However, most don't know the details of why. The > > problem is with anyone that expects a company to act in anything other > > than self interest. To expect anything different is foolish. > > Frankly, what Microsoft did with ooxml is only evil if you are not a > > Microsoft shareholder. :) It's all perspective. I always felt Sun was > > a breath of fresh air. I hoped they could make it work. However, it > > appears that their approach to business was not sustainable. It will > > be interesting to see if google is able to survive and still be seen > > as a good guy. > > > Ok, enough stirring of the pot. > > > I appreciate your work and your willingness to engage in a little > > constructive dialog. > > > LES > > > On Jul 27, 4:10 pm, TorNorbye <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Jul 27, 12:29 pm, Ryan Waterer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > What Tor is saying that it is quite silly to think that Al Gore actually > > > > created/invented the internet. > > > > No, that's not what I was trying to say -- I was saying it was silly > > > to repeat the meme that Al Gore -claimed- to have invented it. > > > > It was used (successfully) in a political campaign against him, but > > > that's in the past now and we can get back to facts. Yes, it was > > > clumsily worded (as is true for a lot of statements by politicians) > > > but no reasonable person would look at the complete statement and > > > believe he was claiming to have invented it. > > > > By the way, here's what Vince Cerf ("father of the internet") wrote > > > about this > > > story:http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200009/... > > > > -- Tor --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
