Sorry fro the broken post (ironically, something that NEVER happened
to me with a real mail client - I'm using Google Groups' web
client...)

If Java applets/JAWS (with or without JavaFX) fail, I'm afraid that
the winner will be either Flash or Silverlight, not the W3C-backed
web. It's probably right that many people would gladly move 80% of
their apps inside a browser. But the browser is not up to the task,
and I don't think it will be at least with the next batch of HTML5
gizmos. The window of opportunity is wide open for "external" RIA
technologies and will be for a few years still.

A+
Osvaldo

On 30 nov, 16:31, opinali <[email protected]> wrote:
> Unfortunately, JavaScript (plus its DOM interface with the outside
> world) is a pretty poor choice for such UVM role.
>
> First, with its dynamic typing, prototype-based structure, it's one of
> the hardest languages to optimize and even next-gen JITs like V8/TM/
> Nitro will not compete with Java (even with HotSpot Client) any time
> soon (or with Silverlight's CLR, for that matter). JS apps only look
> fast when they are thin layers over non-JS services like DOM, WebGL,
> canvas/video/audio support, etc. or when the network is the bottleneck
> (gmail, maps, etc.) so the user accepts delays as something natural.
> Any app that depends on a large amount of JS code, or contains
> complex, CPU-bound JS algorithms, will be a fiasco for many years to
> come. In the old times we'd just say "yeah whatever, let's just wait
> the next couple Moore's Law doublings of CPU speed", but these are the
> new times and CPUs are not getting faster in any significant speed, so
> until somebody comes up with a magic parallelization framework,
> language speed will matter a lot.
>
> Second, JS/web apps still lacks very important features. While the
> next round of progressive-rock-browsers will implement such things as
> accelerated 3D, I'm still waiting for such simple delicacies as
> support for custom right-button menus, drag&drop, clipboard
> integration, etc. There's also the hard reality of MSIE lagging as
> much as they can get away with, to support these latest enhancements,
> because Microsofts agenda with Silverlight competes radically with the
> pure-web RIA. Now MS is talking IE9 which should have a JIT-compiled
> JS VM with decent performance, plus some HTML5 support. But this only
> means that IE9, in late 2010 or 2011, will be as good as the state-of-
> the-art of 2008 (at best). And many corps are still dragging their
> feet with IE6; it's clear to me that pushing a plugin (that is
> compatible with old IEs) is less hard than pushing the latest
> browsers.
>
> If Java applets/JAWS (with or without JavaFX) fail, I
>
> On 30 nov, 10:56, Casper Bang <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > People are no longer programming directly in JavaScript though, but
> > abstractions on top a la jQuery and GWT which shields the developer
> > from most of the ugliness. Google has proven time and again how they
> > perceive JavaScript as nothing less than a universal machine layer
> > opening the door for universal access (computers, phones, picture
> > frames etc.). I think Sun missed that opportunity when NetScape made
> > JavaScript the de-facto language over Java.
>
> > /Casper
>
> > On Nov 30, 1:04 pm, Simon Brocklehurst <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 30, 1:27 am, Josh McDonald <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > 2) Stop with the applet. Seriously. The browser plugin war is over, 
> > > > Adobe
> > > > won. Years ago. And before Java 7 is ready and modularised, Google will 
> > > > have
> > > > gotten V8 and (Canvas||a replacement for Canvas) up to par. It's just 
> > > > more
> > > > important to them than Java 7 and FX are to Sun (which is not how it 
> > > > should
> > > > be IMO), they have more money, and they've built a nest of hackers where
> > > > even @dhanji isn't (always) the smartest guy in the room. The JVM is
> > > > *awesome*, but Tamarin is good enough for the browser.
>
> > > That's an interesting suggestion.  You might be right that this war is
> > > already lost.  Personally, I hope not - I think JavaScript is a poor
> > > choice of language for building sophisticated browser-based
> > > applications.  *If* it is lost, though, the consequences are serious,
> > > because it will restrict every non-browser RIA platform to a pretty
> > > small niche.  That's because close to 100% of people have already
> > > decided they want 80% of the computer systems they access via a
> > > desktop computer to run inside a browser,

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