Generally I stay out of the programming languages discussions, since they go nowhere.
But the statement that only de Icaza is the only one doing interesting things with .NET is just plain crap. A couple of points first - I'm not employed by MS and I didn't like their tactics in the past. But .NET is GROWING in importance, not shrinking. Frankly there are many things in C# where it is (knowingly) "Java done right." And .NET continues to pull in mindshare worldwide, because large outsourcing companies in India and Russia are increasingly using it to service clients in the USA and Europe. The turn-around time for ASPX/IIS projects from India is amazing; meaning that they can perform the work on a ASPX front-end 3-4 times to get it right in .NET in the time it takes to edit the XML configurations for J2EE. [Yes, I know, probably not in Spring. Irrelevant conversation. Corporate would demand the full J2EE stack.] Especially where the outsourcing is only doing visual ASPX front-ends to corporate data. That market is growing even in this recession. With LINQ the time-to-market is shrinking further. Also, the CLR is under some suspicion due to MS patents in recent days. But the truth is that this is far more open than many other technologies, and MS does not restrict the creation of new languages for CLR. De Icaza (and I respect him a LOT) is pushing the envelope, and I wish that MS would cut him some slack. But we don't know all the details in the dispute, so I'll withhold judgment. I don't expect him to abandon his efforts either, so a compromise is likely. Finally, your separation of "non-tech" from "tech" professionals does not hold up under scrutiny. I don't care that much for ASPX and the .NET IIS stack mysef, but the idea that companies that dictate its use are only employing "non-technical" or "non-serious" persons is utter bunk. By this definition a complete tool that uses PHP (PHP! for Pete's sake) would be more serious. Trust me, if you think that ASPX/IIS is worse that PHP you really need a shrink. My company has third-party software that we use written in .NET soup-to-nuts. It can be frustrating to update when upgrade comes. It isn't perfect. BUT, they've had one security problem fix over 5 years - one issue in a complex C#/IIS/ASPX workflow with MSSQL backend. 1 (read it again), 1. By my lights that record is pretty good. We just don't worry about security with that product. It was written by serious professionals working in C#, and its security is 100% in their own workflow. We keep the updates in Windows automatically done, and that server and that workflow 'just works'. Corporate considerations (yes, including ASPX/IIS outsourcing to India) are not often controllable by the programmers here in the States. But that doesn't make the programming staff "non-technical". And there is a LOT of pioneering in such companies, and because the front-end view is rendered by IIS is not relevant to the capabilities of the staff. Shake out your head gear. I'll choose to go 100% over to MS and have a Bill Gates brain implant before I'll work in PHP. I can work 90% in C++ or C and then display the results in C# IIS webpages (since the company wants that). Sure, I'd prefer Tomcat/Java for that, but the business people don't care if I'm doing Digital Mars compiled C programming most of the time. They know that time to market for IIS is very fast when we actually need to visualize the work in a web page (and can partially be outsourced to very competent offshore guys in Delhi or Bangalore or Moscow). On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Blanford <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have been wondering for years whether Java was going to be a success > or not. > > Well, Java has been a great success. > > I have always wondered how it would fare against a very aggressive > community of dynamic scripting languages. > > For years I thought Python PHP Ruby PHP Perl would eventually render > Java irrelevant. > They are easy to use and flexible. Plus in the age of the web Java's > cross platform advantage does not help much. > > However, the scripting world can seem eratic. Python 3 for instance > has had a hard time with adoption and has broken most of its popular > packages (i.e. Django Trac etc.). Also Perl6 has been acused of being > vaporware being in development for over 10years adding FUD to the > project. > > Lets face it, scripting technology is easier and very robust, but is > it too eratic to compete in the long run? > > p.s. > > IMHO .NET is irrelevant. Many non-tech corporations use it, but in > the tech world Miguel de Icaza is one of the only ones pioneering > interesting projects. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
