On 2 June 2010 02:40, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> wrote:

> Learning java closure syntax is more complicated than learning scala?
> You've got to be kidding me.


I'm assuming that this is the sentence that prompted your outrage:

"Scala is, frankly, the lowest impact change for java developers willing to
move to a better integrated functional syntax (at the cost of legacy
functionality)"

The key phrase was "better integrated", it was a comparative, but to what?
 To Java's proposed syntax of course!  So I was talking about the lowest
impact of the alternatives to Java.  Presumably you don't consider Java to
be an alternative to itself?


To avoid any further confusion, I'll rephrase it:

Having a functional syntax that is closely integrated into a language
(ideally from the point of conception) is a desirable thing.  Unfortunately,
this deep integration is not possible with Java due to
backward-compatibility constraints.

For Java developers wanting a syntax that is more natural and effortless
than this proposal, it would therefore seem wise to look beyond
Java-the-Language.  In this broader space of alternate JVM languages the
barrier to entry seems lowest for Scala, thanks to static typing and
conscious efforts at making Java-Scala interop effortless.  Scala can be
initially used as though it were no more than a tidied-up variant of Java,
allowing developers to become productive again in a very short space of
time.





On Jun 1, 2:41 pm, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Quite the opposite, I want to promote java-the-platform vs .net, ruby,
> etc.
> >
> > Java is a great language if you want compatibility all the way back to
> 1.0
> > code, but in terms of having contemporary features and being fun to use
> it's
> > already lost a great deal of mindshare.
> >
> > Scala is, frankly, the lowest impact change for java developers willing
> to
> > move to a better integrated functional syntax (at the cost of legacy
> > functionality)
> >
> > I *could* promote Java by defending an outdated legacy syntax that must
> be
> > kept for reasons of backward-compatibility.  I could also promote Star
> Trek
> > by shouting down anyone who says that Kirk's character is over-acted.
>  But
> > to me, the true essence of Star Trek is perhaps better captured with
> Patrick
> > Stewart at the helm...
> >
> > And so it is with Java vs Scala, we may mourn the loss of mini-skirts
> from
> > time to time (who doesn't?).  Nevertheless, the end product is arguably
> > better, and you have to admit that holo-decks are pretty cool - there are
> > many stories that just wouldn't have been written without them (a bit
> like
> > built-in FP then).
> >
> > So did Star Trek NG denigrate the original series?  I'd like to think not
> -
> > it's full of nostalgia for me.  I'd also like to think that Scala isn't
> > denigrating Java, it's just the future of the same universe.
> >
> > As for Scala mailing lists?  Yes, I'm a frequent contributor there, where
> > they boldly go to some amazing new places at times.  The best part is
> that
> > we manage to do so without the dilithium crystals failing every third
> > episode, and I'm finding that I really don't miss it as a plot element
> all
> > that much.
> >
> > On 1 Jun 2010 12:32, "Reinier Zwitserloot" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, yeah, we'll just move every single existing java programmer over.
> > Easy peasy.
> >
> > I get really annoyed at people who have this 'oh, give up java
> > already' vibe. If you don't care, that's fine. Why don't you go and be
> > positive on the scala mailing list, instead of being negative here?
> > Some of us are trying to make java a better language. If you'd rather
> > torch java's future to increase scala adoption, I don't want to talk
> > to you. The more languages the merrier, let them win on their merits,
> > not by the demerits of other languages. Also, it's all on the JVM.
> > When one JVM language gains strength, that solidifies the JVM as a
> > platform, which is good for all JVM languages. I want a strong Scala
> > *AND* a strong Java.
> >
> > On Jun 1, 10:56 am, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Syntax wise, we can be a lot s...
> > > On 1 June 2010 09:35, Moandji Ezana <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Michael Neale <
> [email protected]
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > >> I think it shows it in its worst light, when others show examples it
> > > >> is OK I guess...
> >
> > ...
> > > > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]>
> <javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups .com>
> >
> > <javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups .com>
> >
> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
> > >...
> > > mail/google talk: [email protected]
> > > wave: [email protected]
> > > skype: kev.lee.wright
> > > twitter: @thecoda
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "The Java Posse" group...
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "The Java Posse" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
Kevin Wright

mail/google talk: [email protected]
wave: [email protected]
skype: kev.lee.wright
twitter: @thecoda

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The 
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.

Reply via email to