If PL/2 doesn't pass the TCK, then PL/2 doesn't have a license to Oracle's patents and therefore can be sued for patent infringement. Even though the code is derived from Oracle's OpenJDK. Maybe if you ripped out the JIT compiler you'd be in the clear from a patent suit from Oracle. Maybe.
I agree wholeheartedly with Reinier's farce comment. To me it looks like Sun probably had this in mind all along: sucker the developers who value open source into committing to your platform, then use the patent portfolio to get the lucrative walled garden the open source community wanted to avoid all along. Evil isn't too strong a word, if that's true. Maybe Sun would have remained a benevolent dictator and not acted this way had it stayed independent, but they deliberately chose to retain the legal power to take these actions. And now Oracle is wielding that power against Google, even if Sun may not have done the same thing. Suddenly the existence of GPL v3 makes a lot of sense. Hooray for software patents. I had a morbid thought this morning. Wouldn't it be a hoot if Oracle's lawyers convinced a jury that Scala, Groovy, Clojure, and any other alternate JVM languages are supersets of the Java Language Specification, and therefore anyone using such technologies are guilty of infringing Oracle's patents? (Of course, anyone who adopts JavaFX is perfectly in the clear!) Still hoping someone proves my theory wrong. Keith On Sep 10, 5:16 am, Jan Goyvaerts <[email protected]> wrote: > Why would PL/2 care about the TCK ? Isn't that only a requirement when you > pretend to have written a JVM ? > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 09:04, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Ah, the patent protection stems from the TCK. Which isn't open. Just > > ask Apache. > > > This is not a good thing at all. Oracle, stop this silly crap. This > > way, claiming java is "open" is a farce. > > > On Sep 10, 7:24 am, Keith Haber <[email protected]> wrote: > > > First, IANAL. > > > > My guess is that your hypothetical OpenPL2 based on OpenJDK would be > > > completely in the clear on copyright grounds, but completely *not* in > > > the clear on patent grounds (since you're removing the core Java > > > libraries). > > > > You probably want to start athttp://openjdk.java.net/legal/, > > > especiallyhttp://openjdk.java.net/legal/openjdk-tck-license.pdf. It > > > specifically disallows subsets and supersets of the "Licensor Name > > > Space," meaning the Java core classes and interfaces. You need the > > > TCK license to get the patent grants, and you can't get the TCK > > > license if your derivative fails to pass the compatibility tests. The > > > "GPL v2 with Classpath Exception" only gives you the necessary > > > copyright license, not any patent license. > > > > The Apache Harmony project has been loudly protesting the IP licensing > > > situation for a while now. > > > > Implementing a JVM alternative won't necessarily protect you from > > > Oracle's lawyers either. It's certainly not protecting Google; Dalvik > > > is itself a JVM alternative, after all, and that's what Oracle is > > > suing them over. > > > > I hope my theory is completely wrong, because the situation kinda > > > sucks for the open-source community (and arguably the IT industry as a > > > whole) if I'm right. > > > > Keith > > > > On Sep 9, 3:52 pm, Jan Goyvaerts <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Interesting... so, in theory, any organisation with sufficient funds > > and > > > > expertise might actually pull it off to create a serious VM language. > > It > > > > would be the right time for that. > > > > > But I guess it would be risky to claim PL/2 happens to be able to use > > any > > > > already existing Java libraries ? > > > > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 21:12, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Unless somebody had a trademark on "PL2", they might still come after > > > > > you... > > > > > > On 9 September 2010 20:09, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > >> In theory, they wouldn't come, as that's legit according to the > > > > >> license. You do have to give full credit and you'd have to release > > it > > > > >> under the GPL as well. > > > > > >> IANAL. > > > > > >> On Sep 9, 8:38 pm, Jan Goyvaerts <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > I know there has been *many* messages already about last day > > events > > > > >> > regarding to the future of Java. Although certainly inspired by > > it, I > > > > >> have a > > > > >> > question that is not about Java or any other language. So please, > > > > >> *don't* waste > > > > >> > this thread into something else. Thanks. > > > > >> > * > > > > >> > * > > > > >> > * * > > > > >> > Suppose I want to create a new programming language PL/2, whatever > > my > > > > >> > reasons for that... > > > > > >> > 1) I download OpenJDK (I know it's great). > > > > >> > 2) I rename every "java" into "pl2". (I know I can't call it > > "Java"). > > > > >> > 3) I republish the thing as an open source project OpenPL2. > > > > > >> > How fast can I expect lawyers to knock on my door ? > > > > > >> -- > > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > >> "The Java Posse" group. > > > > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > >> [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > > <javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups .com> > > > > >> . > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > > > > Kevin Wright > > > > > > mail / gtalk / msn : [email protected] > > > > > pulse / skype: kev.lee.wright > > > > > twitter: @thecoda > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > > "The Java Posse" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > > <javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups .com> > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "The Java Posse" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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