Scala, in particular, only goes a little further than Java's generics (see wildcards) in terms of types. Haskell's type system might actually be simpler than Java's, as it lacks subtyping, which is a massive source of complexity.
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Casper Bang <[email protected]> wrote: > I personally think that is a separate issue, more to do with HR and > general common sense, than language complexity! On The Basement Coders > Podcast, father of Java said himself "My big problem is that the type > theory has gotten really complicated. The language lawyers are driving > the bus. It's turning into something where journeyman developers and > even people like me, have their heads spin and go... what?" > > On Oct 7, 2:22 pm, Roland Tepp <[email protected]> wrote: >> I am not trying to segregate developers into two distinc camps here - >> one less capable than other... >> >> But some sort of division is quite simply inevitable because in order >> to write maintainable code it needs to follow certain ... style or >> more deeply, a certain design philosophy. >> >> The more similar the style of different developers is, the better it >> is to navigate and reason about the code. >> New recruits need to be "initiated" into this cabal by carefully >> guiding them (through code reviews and simply by-example) until they >> instinctively understand "how the things are done around here". It has >> nothing to do with a choice of language. It is a social thing just as >> much as coding... >> >> On 6 okt, 13:16, Ricky Clarkson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I disagree that it is wise to separate the skilled from the unskilled. >> > Instead, everyone should be aiming to write the best code they can. >> > DSLs are not beyond the capabilities of anybody employable. >> >> > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Roland Tepp <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > I'm sorry, if I did not understand the sarcasm behind your words (if >> > > there was any), but I think that the mix of junior and experienced >> > > senior *scala* developers is actually quite ideal setup for using >> > > scala in a project. >> >> > > The job of the senior developer is to develop a library/framework/dsl >> > > for the application and junior developer's is the role of using these >> > > frameworks/libraries to produce the end result. The so much touted >> > > assymmetriscity of the language is exactly a perfect fit for this type >> > > of setup -- It is (and arguably should be) somewhat difficult to >> > > design and implement good libraries and power (and right) to do that >> > > should be reserved for those who know what they are doing. On the >> > > other hand - in the presence of good libraries, writing good and >> > > maintainable code by relativelt unexperienced "junior" programmers >> > > should be fairly straightforward process. And by using the language, >> > > those junior programmers will gradually and gently be introduced to >> > > more powerful and complex concepts, until they too will be capable and >> > > proficient enough to be called "senior" developers and can be handed >> > > more responsibilities subsequently. >> >> > > I would also repeat tat what has been repeated everywhere ad nauseam >> > > -- picking a technology of implementation should not go by personal >> > > preference of any of the business people or even techies. The choice >> > > should be balanced decision between needs of the business and values a >> > > particular technology can offer and problems it can solve and how >> > > rapidly any given technology solution will return the busioness value >> > > compared to the investment of the time, money and experience the >> > > business has invested in it. >> >> > > In some sense the immediate winner in this battle seems to be Java, as >> > > just by the number of developers who already have heavily invested in >> > > Java and it's ecosystem (libraries, frameworks, platforms, etc.) can >> > > bring back the immediate results much faster if they don't need to >> > > spend time learning a new language or framework.... >> >> > > But as it has been pointed out by some in this thread and elsewhere, >> > > the long term ROI of those who have invested in learning Scala, seems >> > > to (sometimes significantly) overweight the time spent on that >> > > investment and the gap seems to widen as the experience is >> > > accumulated. >> >> > > This is not unlike aquiring any sufficiently non-trivial skill -- as >> > > you learn, overcoming the initial inertia is quite difficult (at least >> > > until you start understanding the basic concepts). >> >> > > On 5 okt, 14:41, Liam Knox <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> That is very true. And now thanks to Odersky any team with a mixed >> > >> level of >> > >> Junior/Senior developers, even given a choice of language, should stay >> > >> well >> > >> clear of Scala. Clearly half the team would die of immediate brain >> > >> hemorrhage. Well played Odersky, good job Old Boy. >> >> > >> 2010/10/5 Cédric Beust ♔ <[email protected]> >> >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Miroslav Pokorny < >> > >> > [email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> >>> If C++ programmers are so clever why are they still stuck using a >> > >> >>> such >> > >> >> POS when many times there are better alternatives ? >> >> > >> > Most developers simply don't have the luxury of choosing the >> > >> > programming >> > >> > language they have to use. >> >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Cédric >> >> > >> > -- >> > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > >> > Groups >> > >> > "The Java Posse" group. >> > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > >> > [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups >> > >> > .com> >> > >> > . >> > >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > >> >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> >> > > -- >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > > Groups "The Java Posse" group. >> > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > [email protected]. >> > > For more options, visit this group >> > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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