Yeah, I'll gladly confess that I think I'm being more pedantic in the argument. Doesn't change my view of the subject and presentation as trollish. Again, I need only point to the fact that you could do "varargs" before they were added to java by just passing an appropriate array. The literal syntax for that was actually less intrusive than what is being pushed as closures in this thread.
And people use them quite a bit in more recent libraries because many people are trying to pull over some really good ideas from other places. On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Alexey Zinger <[email protected]> wrote: > Not sure who you're saying is a pedant in this conversation, but I would > have to say that despite Java's closures not being really closures, people > do use them quite a bit. See the style of GWT API and Guava for a few good > examples. > > Alexey > > > ________________________________ > From: phil swenson <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:47 PM > Subject: Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java Has Always Had Closures > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedantic > > Java doesn't have closures in the way most people think of closures. > It has closures in a half-assed, un-friendly way. So people don't use > them much and in effect, Java doesn't have closures. > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Alexey Zinger <[email protected]> > wrote: >> I don't wanna argue semantics. That said, what we're getting in Java 8 >> isn't true closures. The important distinction is that we don't get full >> execution flow control. All we get is, as you said, syntactic >> niceties. Now, the syntactic niceties are, of course, nice. And I'm not >> a >> language zealot and therefore will not jump off a cliff because Java >> doesn't >> have "true" closures. But in the real sense of the word, it doesn't. >> >> Alexey >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Cédric Beust ♔ <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java Has Always Had Closures >> >> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Ben Schulz <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On 12 Sep., 21:32, clay <[email protected]> wrote: >>> A closure is when you define a function that "closes" over the local >>> environment from which the new function is defined and can access >>> local variables of that defining scope. >> Not just local variables, anything denotable from the enclosing scope, >> such as the method equals(Object), which happens to have a different >> meaning inside the "closure" than outside. This is a contradiction of >> your very definition ("a closure is a function which closes over the >> [lexically enclosing] environment") and thus disproves your >> hypothesis. >> q.e.d. >> >> Technically true but practically irrelevant. >> Jave has indeed had closures since day one (e.g. Runnable, Callable, >> etc...). If you're not convinced, ask yourself the following question: is >> there any programming construct that you will be able to do in Java 8 with >> closure support that you can't do today with Runnable? >> None. >> The syntax will be nicer, but that's all Java 8 is adding in that area. >> -- >> Cédric >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
