Hey. Try one of the ones we were talking about. CoreTemp is pretty straight-forward.
As for the laptop problem, you're definitely not the only one. I understand it's very common. My girlfriend's laptop is a crappy little E-machine running Windows 7. It only has a single processor and, while I don't know what it's running at, the computer is pretty much useless for any kind of multitasking, and now that it's getting pretty hot here, overheat shutdowns are common. -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List <jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com> On Behalf Of Audiobookfan Sent: June 28, 2018 12:37 AM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] interesting thoughts/finding about CPU speeds, temperature and JAWS Thanks for the suggestions. I saved your previous email, so I'll go back and take a look at that. One of the computers is running Vista, the other is running Windows 7 and neither have been reformatted, so the driver issue is unlikely. Plus, the Windows 7 computer had the problem from day one, even when not running JAWS or any screen reader. It was my sighted wife's computer and it would shut down sometimes while she was watching Netflix. She got so frustrated, she quit using the Windows computer altogether. She does everything on her iPad now. I have no idea what the temperatures are. I'll have to go find one of those programs that lets me check those values. Thanks again for the suggestions. Jeff On 6/27/2018 9:39 AM, Valiant8086 wrote: > Hi. > > > The only computer I had which actually powered off do to temp control > issues was an HP Dm4. It had an intel core i5 first gen I believe. It > would climb all the way up to 220 degrees. If it hit 221, *click*. > > > What happens here is likely what I believe you refer to as a target > junction or tj max for short. It's a max temp the cpu tollerates, if > it reaches that, it abruptly powers off. The system should be > employing throttling to prevent the cpu from reaching this point but > it sounds like your laptops don't bother. > > > TJ max varries, most modern core i processors like 212, intel atom > processors were 198 or so, and btw I always speak in terms of degrees > f, not celsius. > > > So, I can think of two possibilities at this point. First is that the > manufacturers of those machines assumed those machines would never > potentially reach tj max while stressed and running at full wattage > for ever. If that's the explanation that works, then your solution is > to figure out why they do have that potential now. If the exhaust fans > are getting clogged a few squirts of compressed air out of a can, not > an air compressor may do the trick. I don't recommend an air > compressor because it may blow rust or water along with the air and > that delicate little fan in there could do without either of those. > > > The other possibility is that the systems were in fact originally > designed with software and drivers that would employ speed stepping or > some other variation to do exactly what you said, throttle back the > cpu when it is approaching tj max. That could probably be fixed by > installing a missing system driver. If you've ever clean formatted the > system this may be the problem. I suppose it might also be possible > that an upgrade to windows 10, even if it was already on windows 10, > accidentally nuked a driver that took care of this. > > > I believe that usually the bios takes control of this when the OS > doesn't, or doesn't even allow the OS to control it, but I'm also sure > it's possible for that to be different. A really old Acer Aspire 3000+ > laptop I had way back in the early 2000s used an AMD simpron 1.8ghz > processor. It ran really hot all the time. On day I somehow discovered > that I was missing a chipset driver or some software package like that > which I never apparently installed after reformatting the system early > on. That helped make it run a lot cooler, this was before I was into > watching clock speeds with core temp and such. > > > You could try setting the max processor state lower and see if your > laptops run cooler, a previous email of mine in this thread explains > that process. > > > Lastly, you could run core temp and minimize it to try and check it > frequently while you attempt to stress the laptops and see what temps > are being realized, if they're staying reasonable but powering off > then there's probably a different issue at play > > > > Cheers: > Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy > Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - > http://valiantGalaxy.com"; > > <Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable> > > On 6/27/2018 12:19 AM, Audiobookfan wrote: >> This is an interesting thread. The mention of laptops overheating and >> shutting down especially caught my attention. I thought I might be >> the only person in the world experiencing this problem, but I have 2 >> different laptops from different manufacturers which both exhibit >> this problem whenever they are called upon to do some real work, >> e.g., checking for Windows updates or scanning for viruses. I get >> nervous anytime I hear the fan ramp up and it's a constant frustration for me. >> >> I fail to understand why manufacturers design laptops this way. Why >> don't they back off the processing rather than shut down the computer? >> Is it that I have the power settings incorrectly configured? If so, >> can someone please tell me how to configure my laptop to avoid these >> shutdowns? >> >> I've not done much with the power settings. I've just left them at >> their defaults. Honestly, I don't know what most of those settings >> mean, so I've been reluctant to mess with them. Reading this thread >> convinces me there are some knowledgeable folks on this list who >> might be able to help me out with this issue. If you can, I'd be ever >> so grateful. >> >> Thanks, >> Jeff >> >> >> >> On 6/26/2018 2:55 PM, JM Casey wrote: >>> Hello Aaron. >>> >>> Thanks for writing all that. I believe I understand, mostly. >>> >>> It's not a laptop, but a desktop machine. So, no battery. I've only >>> really experienced overheat problems with laptops, but you might >>> indeed be right about the components. Still, my girlfriend's laptop >>> keeps shutting down for precisely this reason. Yes, I understand >>> what you mean about it being ridiculous to have the computer >>> operating at maximum clock when it doesn't need to. I suppose that >>> is the whole point of "throttling". I think you gave me a clue as to >>> why, even though I thought I had set the plan back to "balanced", >>> the speed according to several diagnostics was still hanging around >>> 3500 to 4100 mhz. I'm still trying to understand exactly how the >>> power plans function. >>> >>> I was wondering about the processor state and what exactly I ought >>> to do with it, if anything. I should probably leave the max at 100%; >>> right now the minimum is 5% and, based on what you described, I >>> think this should be ok. >>> >>> It's also worth noting that the fans in my PC did need a serious >>> cleaning. >>> My builder guy is always asking me to check the temps on my computer >>> but I just figured that's the kind of guy he is and never bothered >>> on a regular basis. I take it most people usually don't, until their >>> computer starts acting weird or shutting itself off at high >>> temperatures. >>> >>> I also realised how much of a drain JAWS + Vocalizer was on my >>> system. I told him that now that I'm back on Eloquence, the >>> difference is basically night and day. This system more than meets >>> the listed requirements but the performance hit, now that I can >>> actually see (and hear) the difference, was drastic. He doesn't >>> really understand this, but he's never had to use or bother with a >>> screen-reader himself; I believe he thinks it's a lot more basic >>> than it actually is. >>> >>> Cheers and thanks for giving my message some thought. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: JAWS-Users-List <jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com> On >>> Behalf Of >>> Valiant8086 >>> Sent: June 25, 2018 8:10 PM >>> To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com >>> Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] interesting thoughts/finding about CPU >>> speeds, temperature and JAWS >>> >>> Hi. >>> >>> >>> Try putting it back on balanced. You don't have a battery do you? >>> there's no battery icon? If you do have such an icon, you should be >>> able to press space on the icon in the system tray and you'll have a >>> left right slider you can use to adjust the cpu's power consumption >>> for better battery, better performance or best performance. >>> >>> >>> You would want to see if you're on better performance. If not, >>> selecting that will make the cpu spend more time clocked up, and be >>> more eager to clock up to complete tasks, but won't force it to >>> stand right at the max clock continuously. >>> >>> >>> Btw, having the cpu stay that hot just cause it's running at max >>> clock even if it remains under light load is rather ridiculous. >>> Also, I'd be more worried about high temps like that in a desktop >>> than I would a laptop. >>> Desktop components may not handle high temps as handily as a laptop >>> who's components are all likely built with higher temps in mind e.g. >>> hdds. >>> >>> >>> If you don't have a power icon tip you can get it to appear by >>> plugging in a UPS that will support opperation with no drivers, it >>> should appear as a battery and turn the platform role over to >>> mobile. >>> >>> >>> Lastly, you could experiment with minimum and maximum processor state. >>> >>> >>> 1. open power options windows key+x, then o. >>> >>> >>> 2. tab around to additional power settings link, hit that >>> >>> >>> 3. tab a whole bunch of times to change power settings for the high >>> performance power plan link, or what ever plan it is that you have now. >>> Hit space on that. >>> >>> >>> 4. Find the changed advanced power settings for the high performance >>> power plan button, you may land right on it. Hit space on that. >>> >>> >>> 5. in the resulting dialogue you'll be in a list of power plans, >>> you'll probably be on the high performanced plan but you can select >>> another if you want, just remember this doesn't make that plan take >>> affect so you need select that plan after you finish making >>> adjustments to see what you did. >>> >>> >>> 6. Tab once, in that long tree view, find processor power >>> management, hit right arrow on it. >>> >>> >>> 7. You should have minimum processor state and maximum processor >>> state both in here plus a cooling policy that you could also >>> experiment with to see if it has any affect, I've never seen the >>> cooling policy actually mean anything. >>> >>> >>> 8. Right arrow on minimum processor state. You'll be able to up and >>> down arrow here to apply a base percentage value the cpu will be >>> forced to step at or above. If you have options for both plugged in >>> and on battery then you need to down arrow to plugged in before you >>> right arrow of course. >>> >>> >>> Notes: 0 percent doesn't actually mean the cpu stops completely, >>> it'll clock at the minimum possible speed, which for modern intel >>> CPUs at least is 400mhz and also known as sleep mode, often used for >>> performing basic tasks while the screen is shut or perhaps even >>> asleep. Other CPUs won't go below 533, 800 or 994mhz or there >>> abouts. You can mess with this value to set a minimum slowed speed >>> you're happy with, for instance you may find that if you do 70 >>> percent your c cpu bottoms out at 2.4ghz or some such, and runs fairly cool and is still reasonably responsive. >>> >>> >>> Maximum processor state is also very useful but it won't help your >>> problem most likely, unless you want to try forcing it to run at >>> 2.4ghz and not go over or under that for some reason. >>> >>> >>> >>> Note also that most of the time the percentage won't be followed >>> exactly, you'll get what ever the closest clock speed will be if the >>> cpu steps up or down to match it e.g. if the buss speed is 99mhz >>> it'll jump by 99mhz increments ignoring the setting change if you >>> apply it smaller than that. Also, turbo boost (intel) or I forgot >>> what AMD calls it, where the cpu jumps clock speeds way higher than >>> the rated clock speeds at times, will probably get turned off the >>> instant you lower maximum processor state below 100 percent even one >>> percentage point, and thus the rest of the scale is from what ever >>> your base clock speed is and below that, perhaps. >>> >>> >>> Hope that's useful. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers: >>> Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy >>> Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - >>> http://valiantGalaxy.com"; >>> >>> <Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable> >>> >>> On 6/24/2018 7:32 PM, JM Casey wrote: >>>> Hey everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>> So, I am running an AMD with six processors rated at, apparently, >>>> around >>>> 3500 MHZ. My system has 8 GB of Ram and is running Windows 10, >>>> 1803, and JAWS 18. My preferred voice is the premium Daniel >>>> Vocalizer voice. Yes, these specs are all relevant to the topic. >>>> >>>> >>>> For some time now, I have noticed a certain tendency of my system >>>> to lag, >>> or >>>> lock up, for several seconds at a time. This only seems to happen >>>> when >>> JAWS >>>> is running. I'm aware that my choice to use this synth does >>>> negatively affect JAWS response time, even on this reasonably fast >>>> system. Anyway, >>> the >>>> "freezes" seem to affect some programmes more than others, but >>>> perhaps particularly Firefox and MS Office products. Sometimes, >>>> alt-tabbing >>> between >>>> open windows seems rather sluggish. >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, today I ran a utility from a company called Resplendent >>>> Software called WhySoSlow. It's basically one of dozens of >>>> diagnostic software >>> tools >>>> available, that measures your computer's performance by calculating >>> various >>>> factors. It measures your CPU speed, memory load, and the >>>> temperature of your CPUs using the sensors that modern PCs have. >>>> The system was running >>> at >>>> a cool 20-something celsius. It was also running at less than half >>>> its advertised clockspeed, the programme informed me, and suggested >>>> that my >>> CPUs >>>> were being "throttled" to conserve power. >>>> >>>> >>>> Now, I'm aware that some of these third party utilities measure >>>> specs in weird ways, or make strange and not always advisable >>>> recommendations. I've completely gone off using registry cleaners >>>> or any such tools for this reason. I'm also aware that modern CPUs >>>> can "clock up" when the load on >>> them >>>> becomes particularly intensive, but I don't know how well Windows >>>> for instance actually manages this feature. However, I decided to >>>> try a little experiment. I remembered fiddling a bit with the power >>>> settings in Windows >>>> 10 previously, but not to any great extent - mostly just to prevent >>>> my computer from "going to sleep" when left unattended. In the >>>> "power plan" >>>> settings within power options, I adjusted the power plan from >>>> "balanced", >>> to >>>> "optimise for performance", to see if it would make a difference. >>>> >>>> >>>> I then ran WhySoSlow again. My computer is now operating at peak >>>> processor speed, all of the time. I suppose it's also using a hell >>>> of a lot more power, which might not be a good thing. It's also not >>>> "running cool" >>>> anymore. In fact, the CPU temperature has doubled all across the >>>> board, reaching as high as 65 C, according to this programme (even >>>> higher >>> according >>>> to the coretemp utility). >>>> >>>> >>>> However - JAWS is now behaving much more responsively. I haven't >>>> had any freezes. Alt-tab cycles between programmes nearly >>>> instantaneously, and Firefox seems much faster. >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't really have a question for the list. I just thought this >>>> was kind >>> of >>>> an interesting thing to share, and wondered if anyone else had >>>> observed anything similar. It is a fact that with my current setup >>>> I am normally at >>> a >>>> speed disadvantage when placed against sighted users. This is, I >>>> believe, >>> in >>>> part because JAWS is somewhat resource-intensive, especially using >>>> this >>> type >>>> of synthesiser (yes, I have considered switching back to Eloquence). >>>> I'm >>> not >>>> sure if I ought to keep my setup this way. I don't particularly >>>> want a really high power bill and I don't want my computer to >>>> overheat, though in theory the automatic cutoffs should engage >>>> before anything really bad happens. I actually think it's nice that >>>> Windows includes power saving features, but not necessarily at the >>>> expense of system performance. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: >>>> http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ >>> >>> >>> For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: >>> http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ >>> >>> >>> For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: >>> http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ >>> >> >> For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: >> http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ > > > For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: > http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/
