That whole "in sample" and "out of sample" data thing strikes me very as
very odd. If it works on the in-sample and not the out-sample, its going to
have a bad distribution as a single set, so why not just combine it?

On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 5:56 AM, Astor <[email protected]> wrote:

> > we would
> >be required to significantly shorten our optimization periods, thus
> >incurring a penalty of standard error in our confidence bands.
>
> I understand your concern Eugene. However, it is important to recognize
> that in strategy development and validation there are two sets of data and
> two sets of confidence bands.  First set is used for strategy development
> and parameter optimization and is often called "in-sample". The second set
> is used only to validate the strategy performance and is called
> "out-of-sample".
>
> If the confidence interval is very broad (standard error is large) in the
> "in-sample" data, your strategy is not reliable and should not be used.
>
> If the "in-sample" results are good and have acceptable confidence
> intervals, the next step is validation of the strategy on "out-of-sample"
> data. Because "out-of-sample" data has not been used for parameter
> optimization, the results obtained on this data are far more important than
> those from "in-sample". If the "out-of-sample confidence interval is too
> broad, the validation results are not reliable and the strategy should not
> be used.
>
> It is extremely common that the available data set is too small to
> partition the data into  in- and out- of sample sets of adequate size.
> In financial research, the data set size is usually limited not by the data
> availability but by the data stationarity. To create valid sample sizes from
> small data, a technique called "leave-one-out" or "bootstrapping" or
> "jackknifing" is used. In those techniques the model is developed on the
> entire data except for one "holdout" point, then tested on this point. Then
> a different point is selected and the process is repeated. The validation
> results are obtained by combining the results of holdout points.
> Walk-forward optimization is an example of this technique and actually
> reduces standard error in the more important "out-of-sample" test.
>
> >better model would be the one which not only
> >accounts for the supply/demand, but also for its changing elasticity
> >over time
>
> That is definitely so and is often driven by seasonality as well as regime
> shifts. For futures, such as ES, the elasticity could drift in response to
> the proximity of the expiration date or as a result of changing market
> sentiment or increased trading in spot or in "dark pools", which impacts
> demand but is not reflected in bid/ask quotes.
>
> >the manner in which its parameters change overtime is not intuitive at
> >all
>
> If the value of the parameters themselves is not intuitive, then its change
> over time is very likely not to be intuitive as well and vice versa. Most
> non-intuitive parameter changes happen when the optimization surface is very
> flat or has many local maxima. Then a minor change in the data can put you
> into a very different local maxima and cause very unsettling parameter
> jumps. That is why restricting the optimization region to the vicinity of
> the most recent parameter values allows for parameters to only drift
> gradually. Then trends in parameter changes can be spotted and understood
> intuitively.
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* nonlinear5 <[email protected]>
> *To:* JBookTrader <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Sat, December 4, 2010 11:34:20 PM
> *Subject:* [JBookTrader] Re: Dynamic Parameter Optimization
>
> > Eugene, your comment goes to the need to have sufficiently large backtest
> > database relative to the number of adjustable parameters, so that the
> results
> > are statistically significant. How does that relate to potential
> > non-stationarity of parameters?
>
> The non-stationarity of parameters is a problem, indeed. However, some
> things are more or less absolute. Think of the supply/demand
> relationship. If you can capture its essence in the strategy, that
> should work today, tomorrow, and 10 years in the future. Now, I do
> acknowledge that a better model would be the one which not only
> accounts for the supply/demand, but also for its changing elasticity
> over time. However, such model would be more complex, more difficult
> to understand, and more time-consuming to test. Perhaps more
> importantly, while the supply/demand law by itself is quite intuitive,
> the manner in which its parameters change overtime is not intuitive at
> all. The best we can hope for in our walk-forward optimization is that
> whatever parameters were the "optimal" in a recent period would still
> be the optimal in the next period. For the sake of this hope, we would
> be required to significantly shorten our optimization periods, thus
> incurring a penalty of standard error in our confidence bands.
>
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