On 30 Oct 00, at 16:52, Rickard �berg wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Dan OConnor wrote:
> > This is the statement I don't understand: "without the blessing
> > there is no platform." Is there a regulated list of blessers, e.g.
on
> > the web pages at www.gnu.org? Why does Sun get to decide
what
> > is a "platform" under a license written by GNU for code
copyrighted
> > by jBoss authors?
>
> Because they own the platform, in this case J2EE. In short, if we
are
> not a J2EE licensee then we are not using the platform but a
bunch of
> J2SE extensions. Big difference in legal terms.
>
> > Mind you, I'm not saying your toaster can be a platform. I'm
saying
> > that a bunch of software with the same structure, the same
> > function, the same interfaces, the same methods, the same
> > everything but name and version matching is, as far as a legal
> > interpretation would be concerned, the SAME THING. If one is a
> > platform the other is a platform. Come on--this part is just
common
> > sense.
>
> Afraid not. If we claim that jBoss uses the J2EE platform we are
> violating Sun trademarks and are no better than Microsoft in that
> regard.
Hi Rickard,
We are using a platform that happens to comprise the J2EE APIs.
We should not claim that we use the J2EE platform, which as you
point out is a trademark violation.
Regardless, any difficulties in this regard would relate to the
license from Sun under which we use their APIs, and NOT the GPL
license under which we release our code.
If we learn that Apple has successfully trademarked the term
"operating system," that doesn't mean you can't run GNU utilities
on Linux. It's just a name. It doesn't affect the reality of what you
are doing. Linux, MacOS, Plan 9, J2EE, and the "J2EE APIs to
which the jBoss container is developed" are all operating
environments. Notice that those last two things basically differ only
in name. If the J2EE APIs constitute a platform, and we develop to
those APIs, we are running on a platform, regardless of whether we
have rights to the J2EE trademark.
These are completely different things, and I don't understand why
they are getting mixed together. Sun owns the "J2EE" trademark.
But that trademark enforcement is completely unrelated to the
reality of how the code functions and how it is structured.
Consider this scenario. One day jBoss is not a J2EE licensee, and
so the J2EE APIs that it uses are not considered a platform when
interpreting the GPL license. The next day, Telkel signs an
agreement with Sun (with the consent of the jBoss board and all
the copyright holders, if necessary) to become a J2EE licensee.
Now, all of a sudden, the interpretation with regard to the GPL
changes. The APIs are "platform" APIs. Why? Don't say "because
Sun owns the trademark," unless you can then point to the relevant
language in the GNU license that makes trademark law relevant.
We license a trademark from Sun and suddenly change how the
GPL license is applied? It seems pretty unlikely to me.
>
> > Seriously, something gets to be a platform because it IS a
> > platform, not because it has been "blessed."
>
> In the general case, perhaps. In the case of J2EE, definitely not.
>
Please tell me what the relevant difference is, that makes J2EE
different from the general case, with specific reference to the GPL.
-Dan
> /Rickard
>
> --
> Rickard �berg
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.telkel.com
> http://www.jboss.org
> http://www.dreambean.com
>
>
