As a jakarta committer, I have to say thanks for stating this as succintly as you did.
I also read the article and thought that it was a little harsh, but was not too worried about it. I admire what Jboss is and what the Jboss group is attempting. You guys are the next Linux/Apache. Keep up the good work. Nevertheless, IMHO IBM/Sun don't affect what Apache is doing to the extent that you think. But again MHO. I would love to see you guys come to Apache and build the whole stack, but I also think you are doing fine where you are. Cheers, Scott Sanders PS. Save me a tshirt ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 3:22 PM > To: Ceki Gulcu; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] JBoss and Apache > > > |>The interview states very clearly where I stand... > | > |Actually, your comments in the interview came though like an > |unwarranted attack against Jakarta whereas now your concern > seems to be > |focused on the business model which is a very legitimate concern. > > I am sorry if the interview ruffled some feathers. My > intention was not to attack Jakarta. It was simply to state > my view that JBoss Group and Jakarta have different agendas. > JBoss Group does not aspire to be a non-profit organization. > We actually want to pay for J2EE certification. Also, we are > extremely protective of our independence. My feeling is that > IBM is calling the shots at Apache right now. The JBoss LGPL > license and JBoss Group brand are an important part of our > business, as is our independence from larger organizations. > > |>The Apache Foundation model is incompatible with our professional > |vision. I > |>view the ASF as a failure of the open source business > model. I view > |>Linux as an even bigger failure of the open source business > model, so > |>you see... :). > | > |Apache is rather big, Linux is even bigger. So > characterizing Apache or > |Linux as one big flop is inaccurate. I don't think Apache is about > |financial success. > |We measure success by a different yardstick. I would even > adventure to say > |that we don't really measure it. > > I never called Apache a flop. I only stated my opinion that > it's not independent developers calling the shots, but IBM > and to a lesser degree Sun. Apache is a big success from an > open source standpoint, Linux is king in that category. But > we want to move beyond simple open source success. We want a > business model that favors the developers in the group. By > this measure, the business of Linux is small, the developers > are in their corner, the Linux distrubtors in another. > Apache... httpd? as a protitable market? Financially, it's > been victimized by its own success. There's no way to make an > independent living out of it. If that's what you and the > Apache guys want, that's fine. It's just not what we want for > JBoss. J2EE is a different beast altogether. Everyone says > Open Source needs services as a b-model, well J2EE is an > inherently rich deep integration field. We want to be a > player in it. We feel, it is only by earning money that we > can achieve our independence and we simply would rather deal > with clients than donors. Fact is that there's no free lunch. > "You're going to have to serve somebody"--in the words of Bob > Dylan. We want to choose who we serve and how. > > We are about commoditizing the appserver and getting paid as > developers. The major thrust of corporate software is about > pursuing the reverse, commoditize the developer and make > people pay through the nose for the software. > > JBoss Group is the professional umbrella for a core group of > developers and affiliates. > > |Why do you think you couldn't pursue the same goals within > Apache? What > |is there to prevent you? > > See above: it's about maintaining independence vis a vis > other corporations and being able to choose the license we > want. It's about the JBoss Group brand and benefiting the > JBoss developers. Furthermore, right now Apache is not a J2EE > play. You have excellent software (your own log4J, XML > parsers, ANT, etc.), but when it comes to J2EE you only have > 20%, with Tomcat JSP servlet spec (done by Sun). We already > implement the other 80% (EJB, JMS, JCA, JMX, etc). With > Jetty, we have the full stack, including HTTPD. > > We respect your work and philosophy. There's room for difference. > > Peace, > > marcf > > > _______________________________________________ > Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development > _______________________________________________ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
