Re: [JBoss-dev] Transaction propagation change

[David Jencks]

On Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 09:10 AM, Barlow, Dustin wrote:

Let me simplify the example to demonstrate my real point. (and hopefully
this is a better example)

In the 3.x series of JBoss, there isn't a way to have one SSB with a
transaction attribute of Required call another SSB with a transaction
attribute of Required on a second jboss instance and have both of those
beans enlist in any kind of "native" JBoss transaction. If you stay within
one instance of JBoss, you are fine, but the moment you start to really do
n-tier designs with tight transaction integration (ie XA), that is when
problems arise with this NotSerializable exception. I do know that the 3.x
series only supports local transaction, but my overall point is that I just
don't understand why a distributed transaction has not been a "native"
feature of JBoss from the beginning being that it seems to me that it would
be fundamental to n-tier designs. I presume there is a good reason for
this. I just don't know/see what that reason would be.

the only reason is that no one has previously written a distributed tx manager. I wrote the basic stuff we need in jboss 4, it should even work with the trunk invoker.

david jencks

If you have persistent JMS queues, then I would probably agree that having a
distributed global transaction involved when asychronous transports are
involved may not be best practice. However, if a non-persistent JMS queue
is used (and i don't know why anyone wouldn't use persistence), then I can
see having a distributed transaction as very beneficial to the integrity of
a single unit of work.

Dustin

-----Original Message-----
From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:37 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Transaction propagation change


one of my favorite topics is coming up again
One day I will sit down and write a tx spec.

Ok frankly WHY DO WE CARE THAT MESSAGING IS ASYNCHRONOUS WITH
RESPECT TO
TRANSACTION.  Yeah I know the answer you could have a long running
transaction and messages and queues and bla bla bla.  BS BS BS.

So the method returns immediately.  SO WHAT? the listener
that will pick
up the message and act upon it may very well want to synchronize with
the GLOBAL transaction going on in the web.  And commit or rollback
according to the outcome.

The scenario is simple.

Image A does something and sends messages to n instances with a global
transaction associated to it.

n recievers get the message get the TPC and register with the
global tx.
If the global tx is still running then all good 2phi dance starts bla
bla bla. if the tx is out (too old) then the guy who woke up late just
says "sorry can't register" and possibly no one cares or he can notify
(whatever the app rollback semantics are).

AT A SYSTEM LEVEL I DON"T SEE A REASON FOR THIS "BAD IDEA"
SYNDROME. IN
fact it always has struck me that there is NO WAY to
propagate a TX with
a message.

you know what? this is something we can VERY easily do in
JBoss.  Adding
the message in the new rewrite may be the usual 'put an interceptor
here' deal, once we make progress on the rewrite.

But the point is simple, the asynchronous nature of the transport
protocol should not have an impact on the definition of a web
transaction.

IN fact it is a requisite for web services (generic way)Tx
definitions.

Many threads TX!

</water-walking>

marcf

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of danch
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [JBoss-dev] Transaction propagation change


And having a way to do that would probably be a Bad Idea.
Propogating a
transaction through asynchronous transports doesn't sound

like a good

idea to me, anyway.

-danch

Hiram Chirino wrote:

Just a small correction..  your example would have to be in

at least 2

units of work.  There is NO WAY to put a JMS message and

get it again

in a single transaction.

Regards,
Hiram

Having a distributed transaction context is especially

important for

example when you have a EJB from one jboss instance posting

a message

to a JMS queue
on another jboss instance that in turn has a MDB that calls

another EJB on

that second instance.  If I want that all to be under one

transaction and

thus rollback as one business unit of work, there is no way to do
that (that
i'm aware of) with "native" JBoss in the 3.x series.  I

know one could use

Tyrex, but the author doesn't recommend using Tyrex in a

production

environment and so I'm a little leary to use it myself.

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