I can definitely appreciate your arguments. However, three things conspire against us all:

1) The entire XMPP stream is a complete XML document, the specs of which do not permit the NULL character anywhere within the document itself.
2) Flash does not currently seem to accept this, since it wants a complete XML "document" with each reciept.*
3) Jabberd2 aims to be an open reference implementation of the XMPP-Core and XMPP-IM RFCs.


Both Flash and XMPP (often in the form of the protocols managed and published by the Jabber Software Foundation) are clearly gaining traction, especially in enterprise environments.

From what I've seen so far, here are the possible paths I see we can follow to resolve this:
1) Lobby Macromedia to provide better support for XMPP
2) Lobby the jabberd2 project to provide better support for Flash
3) Develop alternatives to direct XMPP streams


Option #1 is highly unlikely to result in anything in the short term. Option #2 would have a better shot, but since adding the NULL terminator violates the XMPP specs (by way of the XML specs), this also looks highly unlikely. Option #3 is probably the most-realistic compromise at this time, since it does not violate any of the existing specs.

For Option #3, I believe there is already something in the works, in the form of JEP-0124: HTTP Binding. It's not ideal, but given the fact that it can much more easily accomodate the demands from both XMPP and Flash. The problem, of course, is that JEP-0124 is still rather immature, and lacks any truly deployable implementations. Then again, if the Flash-XMPP/Jabber community does not feel this is adequate, they are welcome to present better alternatives.

In the short term, it is probably best to stick with some version of jabberd-1.4, since it already has the compatibility in place. Longer term, it is very likely that HTTP-binding will be the "best" solution, unless options 1 and/or 2 result in anything productive.

These, of course, are just my thoughts and opinions.


- LW


* This is based on what I've been reading, since I have very little experience developing anything in Flash.

Keith Willis wrote:

I agree with Sean,

We are using his XIFF library to connect to our Jabber Server that was
written in .NET.  Currently there is a Chat application and IM.  I am now
onto trying to develop a whiteboard.  All done in flash.

Something that you need to remember is that Flash movies are cross platform,
cross browser compatable.  Even more so than Java.  And it is even more
widely accepted.  Oh, and Flash is ADA compliant.

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Sean Voisen
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:32 AM
To: Jabber software development list
Subject: Re: [jdev] Jabberd2, Flash Client and terminator character...

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Richard Dobson wrote:



Also IMO it would be a bad idea to use Flash as an enterprise development platform, its not really suited to that purpose IMO and you will be limiting yourself using it, IMO for proper enterprise web applications you would be far better using Java.



Honestly, unless you are deeply familiar with Flash's capabilities and its community, I wouldn't comment on the fact that Flash isn't suited for enterprise development!

Take a look at Macromedia Flex. Take a look at Convoq ASAP (built entirely
with Flash) and tell me it wouldn't be great with Jabber support alongside
the other IM protocols.

Flash is entirely well-suited for the rich-client portion of enterprise
development. It is not meant to supplant Java, but rather live along-side it
as the client of choice. Where I work we are building a multi-million dollar
enterprise application for the insurance industry that is Java on the
backend with a full Flash UI in a 3-tier system that interacts with the Java
business logic using J2EE remoting.

So, to say that Flash is not suited to enterprise development is clearly
wrong.

As for Jabber/XMPP, I know for a fact that there is growing support in the
Flash community to use Flash with XMPP. A good deal of this support was
initiated either by me, with the XIFF project, or by others being inspired
by the release of Gush. So, if Flash socket support never makes it into
Jabberd2, I'd say it's a loss for both sides, and XMPP needs all the help it
can get, IMO. With the eminent release of the AOL Presence SDK for
Macromedia Central, it's only a matter of time before Flash developers jump
on the presence/IM bandwagon, and I'd hate to see it limited to AIM.

- Sean

Sean Voisen
Weblog: http://voisen.org
Flash/XMPP: http://xifflabs.com
XIFF 2.0: http://www.jabberstudio.org/projects/xiff
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