While I understand the engineering-idealism of a micro-kernel type architecture with dynamically loaded plugins where we end up packaging "nothing" outside of the kernel, the danger with that view is one of user experience. This view that since everybody is different, we might as well only provide just the core and let each decide for themselves, doesn't lead to a good experience. This is "design by exception". IMO, it is much better to:
- Provide a default user experience with pre-loaded/packaged plugins that satisfy even 50% of the users (guide them, show them a good/typical way) - Let them customize this base easily (this is where the current proposal of bundle of plugins, etc. is good IMO) - Let advanced users, through some kind of manifest, get to the exact-specific set of plugins they need as they move from core to core i.e.make it easy for new users by default, let advanced users deal with their specific setup. My perception from this discussion is that we are aiming for the exact opposite i.e. slick and virgin for everybody and hope new users will be able to magically decide what a good average getting started experience might be, this is likely to only satisfy the advanced users. Advanced users should have a way, but it doesn't need to be the default way as they'll always been able to deal with non-default behaviour. iOS as a pretty nice kernel architecture. But as far as I remember, my iPhone came with pre-installed applications and ringtones :) On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Gus Reiber <[email protected]> wrote: > If I am following all this correctly, we have general agreement that > Jenkins should stop bundling plugins all together, yeah? > ...but some technical ifs and buts about upgrading (Jesse, Stephen, KK, > and Tom can solve, but should not use "pinning" to do so)? > > Then to the extent we do want people to start using Jenkins with *some* > plugins (this might still be a bit contentious, maybe we do want to start > with 0 plugins), we want to put the most minimal UI possible in the front > of a Jenkins initial setup that lets users pick those plugins, yeah? > > ...just want to make sure I am on the same page as everyone. > > > > On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 8:47:59 AM UTC-7, Tom Fennelly wrote: >> >> Gus Reiber is going to draw some screens for what a "Plugin Selection >> Wizard" might look like, allowing us to have a conversation about that. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/dc5546de-3716-4222-a457-8195bb6bc6e0%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/dc5546de-3716-4222-a457-8195bb6bc6e0%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAFgqX_OwRK6G3BG-EZa%3DX%2BhK_8dqgT0EHdHem7ZgbRQjb6%3DsHg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
