Hello Kanstantsin, My apologies to use the term "to lie", it was the wrong word.
English is not my native language and I did not know that the meaning was so strong. As I said before, I agree with you in a lot of things and hope to meet you soon and talk about this with some beers on the table. Regards, 2015-09-27 20:06 GMT+02:00 Stephen Connolly <[email protected]>: > Manuel, > > Please try and remember that what is going on is a process. We do not know > what the outcome of this process will be. I can see four immediate > possibilities: > > 1. The committee may decide that there is nothing wrong with KS's behaviour. > 2. The committee may decide that KS's behaviour is a bad habit that has > built up over time and suggest some type of probationary period with treat > of further sanctions if the habit isn't corrected > 3. The committee may decide that KS's behaviour has been sufficiently bad to > warrant some form of sanction (less than stripping of commit bit) > 4. The committee may decide that KS's behanious has been so bad such that > his commit bit would be reset) > > None of these actions would stop KS from creating PRs, commenting on PRs, > responding to mail threads, etc. Perhaps there are some Github permissions > that could be used to restrict those... or perhaps a bot with admin > privilidges could run arround chasing after KS on the Github repos of > JenkinsCI and deleting any new comments... but quite frankly I suspect that > would be a form of abuse in and of itself and a very sad day for the > community. > > So, unless KS "takes the hump" and decides that the Jenkins community is not > for him, you are going to have to interact with KS going forward. > > Now some form of sanction could perhaps be viewed as a "right to shun"... > again I would view that as a sad day for the community. > > My personal belief is that KS has a different understanding of how the > community works and how the community should work than a significant portion > of the community. Some bad habits have been ignored as cultural differences > for a while due to technical ability and as a result the habits have slipped > a bit to something less healthy. > > When I see you making acusations of lying I see that as adding more fuel to > the fire rather than trying to find a way for everyone to co-exist peacfully > and respectfully. Similarly I did not think that some people's resorting to > swearing in PR comments was appropriate either... > > At the end of the day, if I were to see the Jenkins community being like one > of the foundations, I would see it more closely aligned to the "community > over code" ethos of the Apache foundation rather than any of the other > foundations... > > When we look at "community over code" that really means that your technical > ability can earn you the initial right to be heard, but you only retain that > right if you respect the community. Some of the recent interactions I have > seen with KS and others can seem more hostile to newcomers. > > My personal hope is that KS will see this as an chance to reset some of the > less good habits that have crept into his communication style and he can > then continue to be a healthy part of our community. Alternatives where KS > ends up leaving this community seem - to me - to cast both KS and the > community in a less positive light... I would prefer instead to try and see > the best in everyone. > > -Stephen > > On Sunday, 27 September 2015, Manuel Jesús Recena Soto <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> Hello Kanstantsin, >> >> 2015-09-27 14:06 GMT+02:00 Kanstantsin Shautsou >> <[email protected]>: >> >> >> >> 1) Here >> >> >> >> https://github.com/jenkinsci/build-pipeline-plugin/pull/81#issuecomment-139033384 >> >> >> >> you didn't provided any technical reason only noise. >> > >> > It contains description why i don't like this "solution" >> >> >> >> >> >> 2) Here >> >> >> >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/jenkinsci-dev/NL2wLBjIV5A/gDv9UkCNCgAJ >> >> >> >> "Oleg is identifying very well recena errors in PRs." WHERE??? As >> >> result of this, a bug was resolved. I asked to be maintainer because >> >> the plugin was unmaintained. >> > >> > In env-inject. Plugin was maintained by Oleg. And i saw that commits and >> > PRs >> > was very well reviewed by him. (see below) >> >> >> >> >> >> A) You constantly mention "following existed rules" but it seems are >> >> YOUR >> >> rules. >> > >> > >> > >> > https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Governance+Document#GovernanceDocument-Makingchangestoexistingplugins >> > Try to be courteous to existing developers by sending them heads-up and >> > coordinating with them, but if they aren’t responding, don’t let that >> > block >> > your progress. >> > I really tired adding to CC maintainers and last committers to >> > "maintainership request" emails. I think it rude providing access to >> > plugins >> > without talking with maintainers. >> > This is what happened in env-inject, subversion-plugin, build-pipeline, >> > parametrized-trigger disk-usage email (btw her answer didn't get mail >> > list >> > because i see her reply in my email?) >> >> Again, you are lying. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> B) You constantly mantion my participation in Subversion Plugin. What >> >> is it your problem here? I try to help here in my spare tiem. You >> >> should appreciate and value that a person wants to spend time in this >> >> "no trend" plugin. >> > >> > You didn't get my real point. I have experience that ~ 8 from 10 >> > newcomers >> > fails to do release right. As this one of the most used plugins my point >> > was >> > to have somebody experienced to verify changes before release and >> > support >> > you until you will do some release cycles. Of course i'm very glad that >> > somebody decided to fix this plugin. And i know how much efforts >> > @schrist >> > spent on it. >> >> @schrist is still working on Subversion Plugin when he can/want. And >> we have told about this plugin several times. >> >> Again, negative comments. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Kanstantsin, I agree with you in a lot of things, but your comments >> >> make me feel very uncomfortable. >> > >> > Hope this answer will clear what i mean. >> >> I don't understand what you means. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I hope to meet you soon and talk about this with some beers on the >> >> table. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> > * One more situation. I’m working on docker-plugin enhancements (plus >> >> > docker-java library), there is existed open for everybody plan >> >> > https://github.com/jenkinsci/docker-plugin/issues/235. Nobody asked >> >> > or >> >> > joined development. >> >> > In the same time CloudBees releases numerous number of docker-plugins >> >> > and makes different presentations on JUC. (Obviously, every company >> >> > should >> >> > do PR with docker). >> >> > >> >> > * KK references to https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/pull/1827 if >> >> > it >> >> > not obvious, then i can say that i never tried to personally insult >> >> > somebody. I operate with work and it’s quality and just want to see >> >> > Jenkins >> >> > better. This is what i get from CB developer (comments in PR was >> >> > deleted by >> >> > somebody): >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I always open to facts and arguments, feel free to blame my code or >> >> > help make something better. >> >> > >> >> > What i can say today. >> >> > I think i got good experience with seen how FOSS project transformed >> >> > to >> >> > single vendor FOSS project. I want share statement that i got from KK >> >> > at >> >> > meeting (this can be useful for any new comer) and what i see now: >> >> > - "Project organised as bazaar”. So your free to do what ever you >> >> > want >> >> > (excluding when somebody decided to enforce his invented rules like: >> >> > 1) >> >> > filtering plugins from Update Center, 2) enforcing everybody to not >> >> > use GH >> >> > issues or wiki, etc.). Plus such >> >> > - About 2). KK uses for UI improvement Trello and gogledocs. For me >> >> > it >> >> > proves fact that INFRA is not suitable for comfortable development. >> >> > It >> >> > abusively require from everybody things that you can’t follow >> >> > yourself. >> >> > (This and this) >> >> > - CloudBees developers always suggesting people to merge new plugins >> >> > into existed to have better usability for end-users (and i also >> >> > suggesting >> >> > the same), while they do tones of docker plugins. Where is logic? >> >> > - Right now CloudBees hijacks features planned/existed in >> >> > docker-plugin >> >> > by creating new and new docker-* plugins. (I’m not taking >> >> > personalities, >> >> > plugin is written under CloudBees license headers and CB packages). >> >> > Is this >> >> > how CB works with FOSS? Answer from “KK”: ~“project is organised in >> >> > such >> >> > way, no problems”. >> >> > - IMHO all hired jenkins devs not working on their plugins anymore >> >> > like >> >> > before. Example: role-strategy-plugin that was well maintained by >> >> > Oleg is >> >> > not really maintained now. (Oleg, didn’t i hurt you with such >> >> > message?) >> >> > - According to comments CB employees using model that allows them to >> >> > do >> >> > merges in plugins where they are maintainers without reviews and >> >> > during >> >> > working day only with reviews. Nice hole to merge anything you want >> >> > and >> >> > nobody can follow what work and where happens, because nobody uses >> >> > company >> >> > emails. As experiment i grepped logs for @cloudbees.com and found >> >> > that CB >> >> > contribution into jenkins measured only by Jesse Glick commits ;) >> >> > - KK wants join more developers. My eyes blows when i open remoting, >> >> > core code or some plugins: most plugins is stupid copy-paste, @jglick >> >> > personally invented annotation styling (in the same time i very >> >> > respect his >> >> > experience), mess of letters without any spaces or brackets produced >> >> > by KK >> >> > and all this continue be copy-pasted to other places. How can I add >> >> > workflow >> >> > support in plugin when it impossible to follow changes or read this >> >> > monster >> >> > code? Commit history in core was more clear and clean 1 year ago. I >> >> > tried >> >> > join new developers into plugins and they run away with not polite >> >> > words. >> >> > - Company that says everybody how to do CI/CD and integrate code >> >> > analysers, not using them in newly created plugins. In old plugins >> >> > coding >> >> > style can’t be touched because (?) it should stay for centuries with >> >> > mixed >> >> > tabs and spaces, and in new …? What impression do you expect from >> >> > new-comers? >> >> > - If plugin has some number of open PRs, and has no maintainer, and >> >> > one >> >> > company wants merge something they do it. Such approach kills >> >> > previously >> >> > opened from FOSS people PRs and real maintaining is not happening. If >> >> > you >> >> > work under plugin according to some plan and @reviewbybees PR >> >> > appears, you >> >> > will be forced to switch and merge it either they will annoy every >> >> > day with >> >> > questions when will it be merged (like “Zombie vs Plants”). >> >> > - And of course there is a big cultural difference. If you want to >> >> > see >> >> > the insult, you will see it everywhere instead of resolving technical >> >> > moments. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 3:27:20 AM UTC+3, slide wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Just out of curiosity, what are the possible outcomes of such an >> >> >> investigation? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 24, 2015, 17:02 Kohsuke Kawaguchi <[email protected]> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> We have received complaints from multiple people that the conduct >> >> >>> of >> >> >>> Kanstantsin Shautsou (also known in the community as “KostyaSha”) >> >> >>> has >> >> >>> repeatedly overstepped the threshold of what is generally accepted >> >> >>> as being >> >> >>> “good conduct” in an open-source community. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I have personally witnessed some of them as they have happened for >> >> >>> more than half a year, and a number of people, including myself, >> >> >>> had private >> >> >>> conversations with him about the matter. As additional complaints >> >> >>> have come >> >> >>> in despite all those efforts, the board feels we have no options >> >> >>> but to >> >> >>> formally launch an investigation to look into this. We are >> >> >>> approaching >> >> >>> several prominent contributors in the community to join us to form >> >> >>> a >> >> >>> committee in order to look into this from all angles. Once we >> >> >>> receive >> >> >>> confirmations from them, we will share their names. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> While we have not formally adopted any code of conduct, our >> >> >>> governance >> >> >>> document does lay out the vision of the community we thrive to be. >> >> >>> This >> >> >>> project derives a lot of power from constant influx of >> >> >>> contributors, and >> >> >>> maintaining a healthy and respectful environment is of utmost >> >> >>> importance. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The board will refrain from going into the details of the matter in >> >> >>> a >> >> >>> public forum to avoid a public circus, and the committee will not >> >> >>> publicly >> >> >>> discuss the matter for the same reason. If you have inputs to the >> >> >>> matter, >> >> >>> please send them to [email protected], and we will pass >> >> >>> them all >> >> >>> on to the committee. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I’m hoping that the committee will come to a resolution in a week >> >> >>> or >> >> >>> so. We’ll publish the resolution when it concludes. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I do not take a step like this lightly, and I do this with a heavy >> >> >>> heart. However, given the duration in which this has been going on, >> >> >>> the >> >> >>> number of people impacted, and the failed attempts to resolve this >> >> >>> issue >> >> >>> less formally, I feel it is a duty of the board to act on the >> >> >>> situation. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The situation also shows that the project needs to formally bless a >> >> >>> code of conduct. I’m going to work with Daniel Beck to propose one >> >> >>> for us, >> >> >>> and we will take it to the developers mailing list and project >> >> >>> meeting for >> >> >>> the discussion. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> Kohsuke Kawaguchi >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> >>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> >>> send >> >> >>> an email to [email protected]. >> >> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> >>> >> >> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAN4CQ4z_X-Jcpvxz_%3DVV085XKJNZhodREf1tZPHT-3Ge_wEEUA%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> > send >> >> > an email to [email protected]. >> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> > >> >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/aed320c9-6e6e-4062-b334-729b27652083%40googlegroups.com. >> >> > >> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Manuel Recena Soto >> >> * manuelrecena.com [/blog] >> >> * linkedin.com/in/recena >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "Jenkins Developers" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an >> > email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/c7f802f5-a695-46a9-a716-d24ea3dcb550%40googlegroups.com. >> > >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> Manuel Recena Soto >> * manuelrecena.com [/blog] >> * linkedin.com/in/recena >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CABa-UofmDj7VixDeNaxw-grBnW7yTQvS71_UFGMfSvpTbXaYxA%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Sent from my phone > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CA%2BnPnMxFuoxHhQnEer3h0cPwcYhmVC4v52mZrfwVK3KVcSvu2Q%40mail.gmail.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Manuel Recena Soto * manuelrecena.com [/blog] * linkedin.com/in/recena -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. 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