I'll re-iterate what I wrote in my original email. I should have repeated this a few times.
*The board will refrain from going into the details of the matter in a public forum to avoid a public circus, and the committee will not publicly discuss the matter for the same reason. If you have inputs to the matter, please send them to [email protected] <[email protected]>, and we will pass them all on to the committee.* 2015-09-28 2:23 GMT-07:00 Baptiste Mathus <[email protected]>: > Kanstantsin, my current feeling is that you talk a lot about technical > issues here, when it's actually a human one. > In my mind, what Stephen says about Apache's way, specifically and > paraphrasing "people >> code", is actually something fundamentally > important in any OSS project (granted ymmv, but for one I wouldn't spend a > minute in a project that values more code than behaviour). > > Contrary to what you seem to think, the current subject has *nothing* to > do with tech. > > Some people here gave and give a lot of time not only on code, and that is > also a very important contribution [that can also give a bit more voice to > decisions, just like code]. > I was sometimes the witness and/or the target of such behaviour by you in > the past. > > Even if someone disagrees with some choices, that never will entitle that > person to become offensive. And IMO even less in an OSS project where > people do that on their free time. > > To exaggerate and illustrate, even if people here decided to make Jenkins > THE copy-paste driven development tool of the world, that still wouldn't > allow anyone to be offensive. > The right behaviour if someone disagrees with that could for example be to > try and convince with respectful words it may not be the right way, and in > the end fork if prooved to be impossible to change. > > I voluntarily didn't provide too many links about your specific case, > 'cause I hope you will understand the issue, back off and that subject will > stop by itself. > > And granted, you are sometimes right on what you're trying to push. But > doing it the way you too often do is counterproductive. > > -- Baptiste > > 2015-09-27 14:06 GMT+02:00 Kanstantsin Shautsou <[email protected] > >: > >> >>> 1) Here >>> https://github.com/jenkinsci/build-pipeline-plugin/pull/81#issuecomment-139033384 >>> >>> you didn't provided any technical reason only noise. >>> >> It contains description why i don't like this "solution" >> >>> >>> 2) Here >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/jenkinsci-dev/NL2wLBjIV5A/gDv9UkCNCgAJ >>> >>> "Oleg is identifying very well recena errors in PRs." WHERE??? As >>> result of this, a bug was resolved. I asked to be maintainer because >>> the plugin was unmaintained. >>> >> In env-inject. Plugin was maintained by Oleg. And i saw that commits and >> PRs was very well reviewed by him. (see below) >> >>> >>> A) You constantly mention "following existed rules" but it seems are >>> YOUR rules. >>> >> >> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Governance+Document#GovernanceDocument-Makingchangestoexistingplugins >> *Try to be courteous to existing developers by sending them heads-up and >> coordinating with them, but if they aren’t responding, don’t let that block >> your progress.* >> I really tired adding to CC maintainers and last committers to >> "maintainership request" emails. I think it rude providing access to >> plugins without talking with maintainers. >> This is what happened in env-inject, subversion-plugin, build-pipeline, >> parametrized-trigger >> <https://github.com/jenkinsci/parameterized-trigger-plugin/pull/83#issuecomment-92510075> >> disk-usage email >> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/qoy4TbK7mBY/discussion> (btw >> her answer didn't get mail list because i see her reply in my email?) >> >>> >>> B) You constantly mantion my participation in Subversion Plugin. What >>> is it your problem here? I try to help here in my spare tiem. You >>> should appreciate and value that a person wants to spend time in this >>> "no trend" plugin. >>> >> You didn't get my real point. I have experience that ~ 8 from 10 >> newcomers fails to do release right. As this one of the most used plugins >> my point was to have somebody experienced to verify changes before release >> and support you until you will do some release cycles. Of course i'm very >> glad that somebody decided to fix this plugin. And i know how much efforts >> @schrist spent on it. >> >>> >>> Kanstantsin, I agree with you in a lot of things, but your comments >>> make me feel very uncomfortable. >>> >> Hope this answer will clear what i mean. >> >>> >>> I hope to meet you soon and talk about this with some beers on the >>> table. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> > * One more situation. I’m working on docker-plugin enhancements (plus >>> docker-java library), there is existed open for everybody plan >>> https://github.com/jenkinsci/docker-plugin/issues/235. Nobody asked or >>> joined development. >>> > In the same time CloudBees releases numerous number of docker-plugins >>> and makes different presentations on JUC. (Obviously, every company should >>> do PR with docker). >>> > >>> > * KK references to https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/pull/1827 if >>> it not obvious, then i can say that i never tried to personally insult >>> somebody. I operate with work and it’s quality and just want to see Jenkins >>> better. This is what i get from CB developer (comments in PR was deleted by >>> somebody): >>> > >>> > >>> > I always open to facts and arguments, feel free to blame my code or >>> help make something better. >>> > >>> > What i can say today. >>> > I think i got good experience with seen how FOSS project transformed >>> to single vendor FOSS project. I want share statement that i got from KK at >>> meeting (this can be useful for any new comer) and what i see now: >>> > - "Project organised as bazaar”. So your free to do what ever you want >>> (excluding when somebody decided to enforce his invented rules like: 1) >>> filtering plugins from Update Center, 2) enforcing everybody to not use GH >>> issues or wiki, etc.). Plus such >>> > - About 2). KK uses for UI improvement Trello and gogledocs. For me it >>> proves fact that INFRA is not suitable for comfortable development. It >>> abusively require from everybody things that you can’t follow yourself. >>> (This and this) >>> > - CloudBees developers always suggesting people to merge new plugins >>> into existed to have better usability for end-users (and i also suggesting >>> the same), while they do tones of docker plugins. Where is logic? >>> > - Right now CloudBees hijacks features planned/existed in >>> docker-plugin by creating new and new docker-* plugins. (I’m not taking >>> personalities, plugin is written under CloudBees license headers and CB >>> packages). Is this how CB works with FOSS? Answer from “KK”: ~“project is >>> organised in such way, no problems”. >>> > - IMHO all hired jenkins devs not working on their plugins anymore >>> like before. Example: role-strategy-plugin that was well maintained by Oleg >>> is not really maintained now. (Oleg, didn’t i hurt you with such message?) >>> > - According to comments CB employees using model that allows them to >>> do merges in plugins where they are maintainers without reviews and during >>> working day only with reviews. Nice hole to merge anything you want and >>> nobody can follow what work and where happens, because nobody uses company >>> emails. As experiment i grepped logs for @cloudbees.com and found that >>> CB contribution into jenkins measured only by Jesse Glick commits ;) >>> > - KK wants join more developers. My eyes blows when i open remoting, >>> core code or some plugins: most plugins is stupid copy-paste, @jglick >>> personally invented annotation styling (in the same time i very respect his >>> experience), mess of letters without any spaces or brackets produced by KK >>> and all this continue be copy-pasted to other places. How can I add >>> workflow support in plugin when it impossible to follow changes or read >>> this monster code? Commit history in core was more clear and clean 1 year >>> ago. I tried join new developers into plugins and they run away with not >>> polite words. >>> > - Company that says everybody how to do CI/CD and integrate code >>> analysers, not using them in newly created plugins. In old plugins coding >>> style can’t be touched because (?) it should stay for centuries with mixed >>> tabs and spaces, and in new …? What impression do you expect from >>> new-comers? >>> > - If plugin has some number of open PRs, and has no maintainer, and >>> one company wants merge something they do it. Such approach kills >>> previously opened from FOSS people PRs and real maintaining is not >>> happening. If you work under plugin according to some plan and >>> @reviewbybees PR appears, you will be forced to switch and merge it either >>> they will annoy every day with questions when will it be merged (like >>> “Zombie vs Plants”). >>> > - And of course there is a big cultural difference. If you want to see >>> the insult, you will see it everywhere instead of resolving technical >>> moments. >>> > >>> > >>> > On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 3:27:20 AM UTC+3, slide wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Just out of curiosity, what are the possible outcomes of such an >>> investigation? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Sep 24, 2015, 17:02 Kohsuke Kawaguchi <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> We have received complaints from multiple people that the conduct of >>> Kanstantsin Shautsou (also known in the community as “KostyaSha”) has >>> repeatedly overstepped the threshold of what is generally accepted as being >>> “good conduct” in an open-source community. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have personally witnessed some of them as they have happened for >>> more than half a year, and a number of people, including myself, had >>> private conversations with him about the matter. As additional complaints >>> have come in despite all those efforts, the board feels we have no options >>> but to formally launch an investigation to look into this. We are >>> approaching several prominent contributors in the community to join us to >>> form a committee in order to look into this from all angles. Once we >>> receive confirmations from them, we will share their names. >>> >>> >>> >>> While we have not formally adopted any code of conduct, our >>> governance document does lay out the vision of the community we thrive to >>> be. This project derives a lot of power from constant influx of >>> contributors, and maintaining a healthy and respectful environment is of >>> utmost importance. >>> >>> >>> >>> The board will refrain from going into the details of the matter in >>> a public forum to avoid a public circus, and the committee will not >>> publicly discuss the matter for the same reason. If you have inputs to the >>> matter, please send them to [email protected], and we will >>> pass them all on to the committee. >>> >>> >>> >>> I’m hoping that the committee will come to a resolution in a week or >>> so. We’ll publish the resolution when it concludes. >>> >>> >>> >>> I do not take a step like this lightly, and I do this with a heavy >>> heart. However, given the duration in which this has been going on, the >>> number of people impacted, and the failed attempts to resolve this issue >>> less formally, I feel it is a duty of the board to act on the situation. >>> >>> >>> >>> The situation also shows that the project needs to formally bless a >>> code of conduct. I’m going to work with Daniel Beck to propose one for us, >>> and we will take it to the developers mailing list and project meeting for >>> the discussion. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Kohsuke Kawaguchi >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> send an email to [email protected]. >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAN4CQ4z_X-Jcpvxz_%3DVV085XKJNZhodREf1tZPHT-3Ge_wEEUA%40mail.gmail.com. >>> >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/aed320c9-6e6e-4062-b334-729b27652083%40googlegroups.com. >>> >>> > >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Manuel Recena Soto >>> * manuelrecena.com [/blog] >>> * linkedin.com/in/recena >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/c7f802f5-a695-46a9-a716-d24ea3dcb550%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/c7f802f5-a695-46a9-a716-d24ea3dcb550%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Baptiste <Batmat> MATHUS - http://batmat.net > Sauvez un arbre, > Mangez un castor ! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CANWgJS6XkFoHeDFMHQ4419S8w2ksqbWty-AU--Q8HMNsHeo22g%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CANWgJS6XkFoHeDFMHQ4419S8w2ksqbWty-AU--Q8HMNsHeo22g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Kohsuke Kawaguchi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAN4CQ4zOvee4Gmtz6X1ZerUMM83%3DQDD2-%3DsgpXCxCQjTo46-eA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
