I think formatting is a must and I would have loved to have such rules when I started to work on jenkins some years ago. Personally I think that the longer we wait to introduce this, the more it will hurt. I’m happy to volunteer in the adoption of such formatting rules for my plugins - but I would love to have them defined in a central place. Domi
> On 26 Oct 2015, at 23:53, Mark Waite <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:24 PM Nigel Magnay <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Both will be acceptable in styling. That lines are about logic that analysing > tool can’t know. > > Bingo. > > "Automatic code formatters" don't know the semantics of what they're > formatting, so you apply them end up with gigantic concatented lines > (sometimes split to 80 columns, as if we're still producing punched cards). > > This is clearly worse than the "unformatted" case - where the author has > carefully aided the maintainer by splitting on semantically distinct sections. > > By all means, have some IDE defaults that can be picked up (e.g: spaces or > tabs, tabstops, whether to use '*' imports or not), but auto-code formatters > are evil. > > > You describe things with a very broad brush. Earlier you extrapolated from a > request to format code into a comment about management measuring the > irrelevant. Now you're declaring that the benefits my team of 10+ (using > extreme programming as our methodology, pair programming everything, test > driven development, etc.) found from automated code formatting over multiple > years of working together should be ignored because "auto-code formatters are > evil". The sole specific example you offer is that calls to fluent API's > aren't we'll preserved by automatic code formatters. > > Can you offer other concrete examples of cases (preferably in the existing > code) where an automatic formatter will have a serious negative impact? > > When I look at the git-client-plugin source code, I find relatively few cases > of the fluent calls being badly damaged by an automatic formatter. There are > many fluent calls, but most of them will be untouched by an automatic > formatter. > > There is a trade-off between the simplicity of automatically maintained code > format (with occasional sub-optimal formatting as a result of the automation) > and the work I must do on every pull request to not make code formatting > consistency worse in the two plugins I maintain. > > I only maintain two plugins of the 1000+, so I accept that I should not be > considered as a major influence in the final decision. > > Mark Waite > > > or > periodFormatter = new > PeriodFormatterBuilder().printZeroAlways().appendDays().appendSuffix("d > ").appendHours().appendSuffix("h ") > .appendMinutes().appendSuffix("m").toFormatter(); > <——— scroll ——----> > > P.S. Am i alone who receives emails from Nigel with small blue font? > > >> On Oct 27, 2015, at 01:02, Nigel Magnay <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> You don't need to trial automatic code formatting it to know it's going to >> produce a terrible result. >> >> Trivial example 101. Which is the more easily parseable to the human eye? >> >> periodFormatter = new PeriodFormatterBuilder() >> .printZeroAlways() >> .appendDays().appendSuffix("d ") >> .appendHours().appendSuffix("h ") >> .appendMinutes().appendSuffix("m") >> .toFormatter(); >> >> or >> >> periodFormatter = new PeriodFormatterBuilder().printZeroAlways().appendDays() >> .appendSuffix("d ").appendHours().appendSuffix("h >> ") >> .appendMinutes().appendSuffix("m").toFormatter(); >> >> >> I know which I'd rather be faced with when maintaining code. >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Mark Waite <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:21 PM Stephen Connolly >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> I think that the best way to do this is via an experiment in plugins... If >> we get a critical mass of plugins adopting a mostly similar set of rules >> then and only then should we think about applying them to core >> >> >> I volunteer to experiment with a branch of the git client plugin as a first >> candidate. I'd limit the formatting to newer files and files that I've >> created myself so that the "diff wall" won't be as difficult. Older files >> with wildly divergent formatting styles will remain that way as part of the >> first phase of the experiment. >> >> That will give a chance to evaluate Nigel's concern for the impact on fluent >> API calls (since there are several fluent interfaces in the git client >> plugin). >> >> Mark Waite >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAO49JtHbxMpH1RTwRMiYuDj71pVi1fTSsUFbHTpEh%3DeYGMNezg%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAO49JtHbxMpH1RTwRMiYuDj71pVi1fTSsUFbHTpEh%3DeYGMNezg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/8fjvXGYbFJ4/unsubscribe >> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/8fjvXGYbFJ4/unsubscribe>. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAPYP83TJO306gyDmEt_fVx88XVZK54gK7O3JhxqSFzDgLrn6Xg%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAPYP83TJO306gyDmEt_fVx88XVZK54gK7O3JhxqSFzDgLrn6Xg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/FF20FA21-AF8B-46EE-B8DF-10A9DEBA8921%40gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/FF20FA21-AF8B-46EE-B8DF-10A9DEBA8921%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAPYP83Q73VNYKWJWX2iP_0QA9z%3Dy%3DpbDPBHMy0tQJ%2BX6Ley1Ng%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAPYP83Q73VNYKWJWX2iP_0QA9z%3Dy%3DpbDPBHMy0tQJ%2BX6Ley1Ng%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAO49JtHxPmXuDzResjM2PZx04p94khB55O2n4auEoUf9wdY_sA%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAO49JtHxPmXuDzResjM2PZx04p94khB55O2n4auEoUf9wdY_sA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. 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