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Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> on 7/11/01 3:11 PM, "burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > ... not trying to make any friends. I am trying to further science... which I
> > think is more important than making friends. I also apologized ahead of time
> > if
> > you remember.
> >
> > ... please try to keep an open mind with this stuff.
>
> With what stuff? With you popping up from nowhere and saying that Jetspeed
> sucks and is the wrong direction? I don't think so.
For starters... don't put words in my mouth. Did I say that Jetspeed sucks?
No. I was very careful not to even *remotely* give that impression.
What I want you to be open minded about is the technical merits of Reptile.
I am a firm believer in Natural Selection and I believe that the best man will
win..
I want you to think of this. If I proposed an alternative architecture and
called it Jetspeed 2.0 would your reaction have been so extreme? I don't think
so.
<snip>
> I'm not concerned with flexibility because the BSD is flexible enough for me
> (and more flexible than the GPL) and the ASF carries the position that the
> ASF License is indeed compatible with the GPL. But, I'm not going to get
> into a licensing debate with you as I have done it before and it isn't worth
> wasting my time.
fine... and you get to use Reptile under the BSD license... so no problem.
> > I expect you have examples to back that insult up??? :) It is still early
> > code. I need to put another pass over Talon/Sierra though.
>
> Glancing at the framework stuff leaves me wondering why you are creating yet
> another framework once again.
I assume you are referring to Talon? Talon has two major advantages. It is
SIMPLE!!! ... and it will also include Reputation based component selection
which has never been done anywhere before.
> Here we are about two years later and you are back at the same point.
I don't view it this way and in fact I think that this stuff is significantly
more advanced than the stuff I was using two years ago.
> > I think it is naive for you to think I have no good things to say about
> > Turbine. I have a LOT of good things to say about Turbine. However, just like
> > everything ever invented there are some BAD things in it though.
>
> #1. You could have stepped up to modify Turbine to make it fit your needs
> instead of re-inventing the wheel yet again. So, your argument is lame.
Sure ... ok... let's analyze this.
1. Turbine is not dual licensed and is not available under the GPL. Huge
restriction to my freedoms. IE I can't use it when I put on my GPL hat.
2. The main objections I have to Turbine is that it is WAY TOO BIG. When some
of this stuff moves to the Commons this will be negated.
3. I have not had time to work within the ASF because I am spending all my time
working on OpenPrivacy. Hopefully this will change soon.
4. I don't have the time to fix EVERY project. I spend around 15 hours a day
hacking on code... where will I get the time to work on the Turbine project?
> #2. Tell me the truth, when was the last time you really took a good look at
> Turbine?
... around 30 days ago.
> Have you see what is going on in the HEAD? Somehow,
yes...
> I doubt it.
because I don't checkout others code and read it???
> Even when you were working with Turbine, you made little effort to actually
> understand it and implement Jetspeed correctly within the Turbine model.
I was trying to ship Jetspeed on a *real* timetable. Something which the
Turbine project didn't think was worth their time. I didn't have time to
rewrite Jetspeed ever day because the Turbine API changed.
> You left a huge mess behind yourself and now you come back expecting or even
> suggesting that people jump ship and follow you? You just confirmed my
> suspicions that you are nuts. :-)
There are number of ways one can categorize another's personality. One is as a
revolutionary and yet another is as an evolutionary.
I fall into the former category. It is what I am good at. OpenPrivacy
technologies are revolutionary and if you have an evolutionary personality I
don't expect you to understand/appreciate them.
The ASF *thrives* as an evolutionary model. Anyone who acts as a revolutionary
within the ASF is quickly crushed under opposition. Reptile will start to make
sense soon but I expect you to still take a stuborn stance.
I think that one of the *best* features of the Open Source model is that
revolutionaries and evolutionaries can work together. Clearly Jetspeed has been
in the evolutionary process for a while now.
<snip>
> > I don't consider that I "bashed" Turbine and I think you are taking it too
> > seriously. I merely think it is non-ideal.
>
> That's good, because I think pretty much everything that I have seen you do
> as "non-ideal." :-)
>
> Personally, I like people who stick around a project for the long haul and
> work to improve things over people who come and go randomly and leave
> unfinished messes behind.
See my above comment.
> I applaud the Jetspeed developers for picking up that mess and at least
> attempting to shape it into something worthwhile.
... as do I.
> Good luck with your cathedral Kevin.
Good luck with your bizarre Jon. (pun intended).
Kevin
- --
Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596
In the end, only kindness matters.
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