Re: [nyphp-jobs] Re: Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs of exp &

Ben Sgro Sat, 09 Aug 2008 13:57:09 -0700

Hello All,

Many interesting points; Been trying to keep up w/them on the mobile.

I did not intend to create an 'event' on the forum - just wanted toprovide my opinion as observed.

Someone noted that I did not go about it the correct way - I'll takethat to heart.

As far as everything else, I love PHP. I love the PHP community. Thosethat are doing it a service, I commend.


Those that are doing it a disservice, I have been vocal about.

Either way, its my opinion. Again, I'm not trying to create problems,though it appears I have.Next time, I will probably handle the situation a bit differently - orjust say nothing at all (which is bs to me).


- Ben

Thanks to all the private email providing feedback.

Guilherme Blanco wrote:

And I agree.

I generalized a bit.
Here in my country (Brazil) for example.... my current income is 3x
more than the average of the country, but it's around 70% of the price
of an American programmer with the same skills.


Cheers,


On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Jon Tascher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,
I just wanted to point out that price does not directly correlate to
quality.  Although more experienced programmers who (presumably) produce
better code will often charge more, this is not always the case and
certainly does not translate to the overseas market.  I am sure there are
many excellent and qualified foreign programmers who are able to charge less
than American programmers due to the differences in cost of life.  That is
the usually a reason for outsourcing overseas.  Just because someone is
cheap(er) does not necessarily imply inexperience or poor skills.
Jon Tascher

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 3:57 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Important Info & Request to all members in this       forum abt
     my initial pos (Guilherme Blanco)
  2. Re: Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs (Steve Manes)
  3. Re: Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs of   exp &
     good client references (Robert Gulian)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:09:25 -0300
From: "Guilherme Blanco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Important Info & Request to all members in
       this    forum abt my initial pos
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Message-ID:
       <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Actually it seems Ben did it wrong.

None here born with all knowledge, and surely they improved their
skills by working hard to improve themselves while reading,
researching and experimenting.
So, none here has enough words to point a finger on someone else's
face, talk about skills, etc.

You pay for your code and if you want to pay less, your code will be
less secure, organized, implemented.
That's what differ senior, junior, etc and also good and bad programmers.
I'll never put my money into a 15yrs. old boy that tells me that knows
PHP, since I know I have a great chance to have holes in my code.

Short version: The amount of money you pay is the code art equivalent you
have.


Regards,

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 3:47 PM, sundar rajan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks for all the criticism to my post & the reply sent by Ben.

Actually I never know who this guys Ben is , I have never worked with
him
before & ofcourse he is not my client too.

I have been in this freelancing profession for abt 3+ yrs & never got
such
criticism from my clients , though I had troubles / faults in the
project
that I work with my clients , they use to tell me the changes & I do
make
sure to deliver those changes as per the client's requests.

I never leave my clients in trouble with frustration , even though if I
do
some mistakes I do admit to my clients & they give me a chance to work
on it
& prove it & I have done so.

You all can have a look at my online portfolio at
http://www.sundarrajan.com
, besides I have also been member in various freelancing forums & have
good
client reference , reputation.

If you all wish to help a fellow programmer like me , just request Ben
to
send us what project I worked that had the issues as he said. To the
best of
my knowledge I don't think there shud be such projects , but if there
were
some issues the client would have got resolved it with me , they
would'nt
speak bad abt me to a third party code auditor like Ben (because all the
clients I have worked were very genuine , pleasant & helpfull in
nature).

Pls guys never think bad & have a negative impression abt me, due to
Ben's
posting , though I'm not located in US , I do work with clients based at
US
/ UK etc,..

510.455.4387 this is my US skypein number , you can call me in this
number
if you have issues with this post.

I wonder why Ben has posted such critics abt my thread publicly on this
forum.

Anyway lets wait for a good solution.

--- On Sat, 8/9/08, Sean Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Sean Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
yrs
ofexp & good client references
To: "Andrew Wint" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 9:55 PM

I disagree. This wasn't a former employer complaining about a
consultant's
work, this was another consultant, a competitor if you will, stating as
fact
something that no one can possibly double-check. I think it's unfair,
and am
surprised that, on a list dedicated to helping consultants find jobs,
you
folks would not be more concerned about it. I think this is the first
time I
have seen someone in a public forum accuse someone of something and not
be
called to provide proof of their claims. Very puzzling.

No one knows what the job requirements were, what the client's
expectations
were, or what the budget was. Did the client provide enough time and
budget
to have the job done right, or did they just say, "Get it done for next
to
nothing," and then when they realized the short-sidedness of their
approach,
hire Ben to clean up the mess rather than go back to the developer they
low-balled and admit that they didn't give him enough time and $$ to do
the
job correctly. We don't know. Ben won't even tell the list who the
client
was or produce evidence of the inferior work. So to my mind, this whole
thread is quite unfair to the developer who originally posted his
availability and should be dropped.

Finally, as you read this, please keep in mind that we are a company
that
employs people on this list, that's why I subscribe. I have employed
developers here in the US and in six other countries. I find *no*
geo-political differences in coding skills. We evaluate developers based
on
samples, client references and their ability to follow directions. I
have
had more than a few developers who are so focused on developing "great
code"
that they completely ignore the project specs, budget and time-lines.
Those
people don't last long, but people who follow directions do.

Again, without knowing the original assignment that Sundar was given and
what went on between he and the client at that time, facts which I doubt
even Ben knows, we really can't draw any useful conclusions nor should
we
try.

Just my $.02.

sean




Andrew Wint wrote:

All he did was to provide transparency, now we are discussing the
issues.
Kristina gave very valid points about the 'delivery of crappy code' and
not
being able to take action because they are in another country.
Another point is that this why we have standards of development
practices,
these standards shouldn't be compromised they can bend a bit but not
break.
Sundar needs to seek them out and adhere to them.
I know it may seem harsh but it may help Sundar down the line in his
growth.
 As well as protect a small struggling company, thinking they are saving
money but  falling into a trap.
Ben did a good thing.




On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:50 AM, RDP wrote:

I'm sorry Donna, but I disagree.

It's perfectly fine to express a view about someone's work.

Of course we make errors in our code, everybody does.  But you can't
evaluate experience without examining ones work.

And employers DO give out this information.  Especially if an individual
was
let go because of inability.

Finally, I'm having a problem imagining rows of unemployed PHP coders
down
and out on skid-row in cardboard boxes, homeless, because their work was
criticized.

Bye,

Rob



----- Original Message -----
From: Donna Marie Vincent
To: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
yrs
ofexp & good client references
It's not only unethical to publicly disparage an individual's ability to
perform a job, you could be subject to legal action.

Have you ever made an error while performing your job duties?

Even a former employer would not give out this type of information.  Do
you
want to be responsible for someone not getting work, and ending up
homeless
on the street, because of your personal opinion about their work, which
may
or may not be valid?

This is not the same as publicly criticizing a particular product, or a
company's business practice.



--- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ben Sgro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Ben Sgro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
yrs
of exp & good client references
To:
Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 2:17 AM

Hey,

I audited a site this guy built - it was full of holes - SQL injection,
XSS, default passwords on CMS admin accounts, etc.

Also, the code was PHP4 w/HTML sprinkled all over it, cut and paste, no
functions. No layouts, templates or
 smarty.
Basically, impossible and very time consuming to make updates.

Be sure to request some source before you work with him.

- Ben

sundar rajan wrote:

Hi

I'm a Freelance Telecommuting PHP/MySQL Programmer with about 5+ yrs
of experience in building web applications .


Following are the type of small / contract jobs that I take:
/Creating Custom scripts
Member signup with email verification & login with session

authentication

Dynamic PDF File generation from the database information using FPDF
libraries
Command line processing of PHP scripts
Installing CAPTCHA security code for the forms
Google Maps <http://maps.google.com/> API to display a location with

pop-up

 info

XML parsing to database
CSV parsing to database
RSS feeds using Carp
Handling File uploads
Generating statistics reports from the database values
Generating Graphical reports from the database values
Generating Excel download from the database

 values

Working with complex queries in Mysql console
Building application with SEO friendly URLs
Installing MySQL , Apache , PHP , SVN , AWStats & software apps in
linux boxes
/
I can also take up bigger projects with proper specification documents
along with the UI/HTML prototypes.


Checkout my online portfolio at http://www.sundarrajan.com
<http://www.sundarrajan.com/> to know more about my skill-set ,
experiences , projects as

 well as client references.

As a verified premier paypal member since 2005  with over 70 seller
reputation , I can accept paypal / credit card payments.

Please do contact me for further details , if you have any jobs.



--
With regards,
Sundar
Phone: (+1) 510.455.4387

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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________________________________
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

________________________________
_______________________________________________
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NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

--
Sean Fulton
GCN Publishing, Inc.
Internet Design, Development and Consulting For Today's Media Companies
http://www.gcnpublishing.com
(203) 665-6211, x203

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

_______________________________________________
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NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
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Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


--
Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer
CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant
Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9166-6902
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://blog.bisna.com
Rio de Janeiro - RJ/Brazil


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:20:38 -0400
From: Steve Manes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
       yrs
To: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Kristina Anderson wrote:

There are some on this list who've previously said that "the market"
will take care of situations where people want to pay low wages to
programmers.  One of the ways that "the market" might do this,
theoretically, is to make sure that people find out the hard way, when
they hire cheap programmers

I'm just not sure that's a lesson that can be learned by singling out
one programmer for critical review.  Anyone who's been in this business
for a few years has heard the nightmare outsourcing stories and knows
that the market for software talent works pretty much the same as it
does buying a TV or a hamburger: caveat emptor.  If they choose to
ignore it, well, that's who lottery tickets are made for.


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:55:29 -0400
From: Robert Gulian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
       yrs of  exp & good client references
To: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ben,

Your .02$ may backfire on you.  You may have an obligation to your
client to report your opinion but you have an obligation not to report
it to the world at large.  I believe it was a bad judgement on your
part and if enough people feel likewise, it may be you who loses work
over it.

Just my .02$.

Bob

On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Ben Sgro wrote:

It's my .02$. People are free to make their own decision.


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Donna Marie Vincent
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]

wrote:

It's not only unethical to publicly disparage an individual's

ability to perform a job, you could be subject to legal action.

Have you ever made an error while performing your job duties?

Even a former employer would not give out this type of
information.  Do you want to be responsible for someone not getting
work, and ending up homeless on the street, because of your
personal opinion about their work, which may or may not be valid?

This is not the same as publicly criticizing a particular product,
or a company's business practice.



--- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ben Sgro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Ben Sgro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about
5+ yrs of exp & good client references
To:
Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 2:17 AM

Hey,

I audited a site this guy built - it was full of holes - SQL
injection,
XSS, default passwords on CMS admin accounts, etc.

Also, the code was PHP4 w/HTML sprinkled all over it, cut and
paste, no
functions. No layouts, templates or
 smarty.
Basically, impossible and very time consuming to make updates.

Be sure to request some source before you work with him.

- Ben

sundar rajan wrote:

Hi

I'm a Freelance Telecommuting PHP/MySQL Programmer with about 5+

yrs

of experience in building web applications .


Following are the type of small / contract jobs that I take:
/Creating Custom scripts
Member signup with email verification & login with session

authentication

Dynamic PDF File generation from the database information using

FPDF

libraries
Command line processing of PHP scripts
Installing CAPTCHA security code for the forms
Google Maps <http://maps.google.com/> API to display a location

with

pop-up

 info

XML parsing to database
CSV parsing to database
RSS feeds using Carp
Handling File uploads
Generating statistics reports from the database values
Generating Graphical reports from the database values
Generating Excel download from the database

 values

Working with complex queries in Mysql console
Building application with SEO friendly URLs
Installing MySQL , Apache , PHP , SVN , AWStats & software apps in
linux boxes
/
I can also take up bigger projects with proper specification

documents

along with the UI/HTML prototypes.


Checkout my online portfolio at http://www.sundarrajan.com
<http://www.sundarrajan.com/> to know more about my skill-set ,
experiences , projects as

 well as client references.

As a verified premier paypal member since 2005  with over 70 seller
reputation , I can accept paypal / credit card payments.

Please do contact me for further details , if you have any jobs.



--
With regards,
Sundar
Phone: (+1) 510.455.4387

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

_______________________________________________
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Re: [nyphp-jobs] Re: Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs of exp &

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