I really did not want to weigh in on this being a straight guy, but, it seemed to me if these guys have a public web site and possibly some organization, it is most likely better than having a lot of fear and repression and forcing them so deep into the closet that they wind up being abusers.
Like this Westerfield case, I feel, not know, but would suspect, that he has been turned on by kids for a long time, and, did not dare let anyone know. He keeps jerking off and being torn by shame, one day he goes to far and acts out the sex part, he then does the murder to cover it up, because the 1st crime is so reprehensible to us, no one must ever know. I think that part is the greatest danger. He didn't kill the kid by screwing her, or whatever, it's bad but she would have survived, I think we all learn a lesson to try and be open and honest and let these guys come clean, so we can try to deal with it before it manifests itself so horribly. I think it's kind of whacky to be gay. I'm not saying I think it's wrong or anything bad really. It's just hard for me to imagine getting off like that. I tried it, and, it was not happening. I loved my friend but I didn't get any pleasure from fooling around with him, in fact it was horrible because it made him feel bad. Anyway, I don't understand what motivates these guys, but, if they could just fuck women and be happy, I don't think they would risk so much negativity and repression just to be weird. I guess what I am saying is yes, on the surface this seems to be something intolerable, but, stand back a second. They are coming clean with this website, at least by presenting a public forum. Maybe if you take advantage of their willingness to be honest and contact someone who can better answer your concerns and provide insight. You may be able to make a positive change. Right now you are at the worst case scenario almost total lack of understanding or compassion for these guys. Even if this is true and they are the enemy, knowing your enemy and keeping him close is the best way to defeat him. Ted Ps. Please don't email calling me a molester and what not, ok ... I didn't even go to the site and read this crap, just trying to take a sad song and make it better. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Marine Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 12:07 PM To: colin Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Ginsberg, NAMBLA, njc Hi Colin -- You said: > "it can discuss anything it wants but to pretend it doesn't want to > legalise adults having sex with children, ie adults abusing children, > adults preying on children, is naive." > I am no expert on NAMBLA, and I realize that the mere mention of the acronym is enough to sicken most. Perhaps the majority of its members are in fact abusers or potential abusers. I honestly don't know, although I always believed that abusers tended not to publicize their abuse. But I do think that in a free society it is valid to discuss a paradigm that has existed in many cultures, even if the culture we now live in rejects it. I also believe, for example, that consensual sex between an adult and, say, a 16 or 17 year old is not necessarily a horrible thing, although it is considered to be statutory rape in the US. So there may be some validity to an organization that questions sex laws in the US. However, I admit that I may simply be naive. I said: >> I can tell you now that all of you on this list who consider >> yourselves gay owe a huge debt of gratitude to Ginsberg, > You replied: > "really? I wonder about the children abused by people he gave support > to? Not saying here he told these people to abuse but he seems to be > arguing(or you do) that he gave support to the idea." Ginsberg was explicit in his condemnation not only of abuse of children, but abuse of any kind. Yes, really, as a free gay man, you DO owe a debt of gratitude to Ginsberg. The freedoms you now enjoy would not exist without people like him, who took the blows for speaking his mind, and whose work was key to the sexual revolution and gay rights movement. His decision to join NAMBLA was, according to him, a response to what he perceived as a witch-hunt by the Reagan administration. I suspect he saw in this a reflection of the ruination of the lives of many who were members of the Communist party. As a youth, he witnessed this destruction first-hand and I think it greatly informed his political decisions. That being said, he may simply have been wrong. In his later life he freely admitted that some of his advocacy was wrong-headed, misguided, or simply stupid. He was consistently honest, even about his own mistakes. Your points are certainly well-taken, and I believe that if Ginsberg had discovered that his political advocacy had brought harm to a child, he would have been horrified. Best, David
