Hey Mark,

>>> On 7,8:
>>> 
>>> I have no idea what milestones 7 and 8 are supposed to entail.  JWE already 
>>> has wrapped keys, and JWS should (for MAC).  As above, we should strive to 
>>> get this right the first time instead of doing something halfway with a 
>>> promise to patch it later.
>>> 
>>> I’m surprised that you say that don’t understand 7 and 8, as you were in 
>>> the Friday morning meeting in Atlanta that was organized by Joe Hildebrand 
>>> and Jim Schaad that defined them.  The minutes of that meeting are at 
>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/jose/current/msg01337.html.  
>>> Deliverable (A) in the minutes is charter item (7).  Deliverable (B) in the 
>>> minutes is charter item (8).
>>> 
>>> (7) extends (3) to define JSON representations for private and symmetric 
>>> keys (whereas (3) only defines representations for public keys).  See 
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jones-jose-json-private-and-symmetric-key-00
>>>  for a draft that does this.
>>> 
>>> As we discussed at that meeting, while JWE uses wrapped key *values* 
>>> (wrapped CMKs), this new document that Matt is writing will enable us to 
>>> wrap both key values and associated key properties.  It wraps a JWK 
>>> representation (which per (7), may represent private and symmetric keys), 
>>> including potential key properties as the key’s “alg” and “kid” values, as 
>>> well as others that may be used.  It’s intentionally more general than the 
>>> wrapped CMK value used in JWE, again, as discussed during the Friday 
>>> meeting in Atlanta.
>> 
>> I was at that meeting, and I did not leave convinced that having a separate 
>> document was the correct path, as opposed to doing wrapped keys right the 
>> first time.
>> 
>> JWE already has a mechanism for wrapping keys.  Instead of inventing some 
>> separate syntax, we should consolidate the "wrapped key" bits of JWE into an 
>> object ("JSON Wrapped Key", or JWK :) ), and give that object a way to 
>> protect attributes.  If there are no attributes, then this just looks like 
>> what's already in JWE. I can send a more thorough proposal to the list if 
>> you like.
>> 
>> In any case, I oppose adding these two milestones based on the above.  If we 
>> are going to handle this separately, then 7 and 8 should be combined, since 
>> the format for symmetric/private keys will have to have a protection 
>> mechanism.
> 
> Both the W3C WebCrypto and HTML media groups have use-cases for an 
> unprotected representation of a symmetric key. In the WebCrypto case for 
> export of such keys (where that is allowed according to the key properties) 
> and for a representation that includes attributes which could then be wrapped 
> (with AES Key Wrap, for example). In the HTML media group they would like to 
> use this format for the "clearkey" key system for encrypted media, where the 
> requirement is again just for a clear unprotected representation of the key 
> and associated attributes.
> 
> So (7) at least has stand-alone use-cases.
> 
> …Mark

Just to clarify: I certainly agree that need to solve the problem.  I'm just 
not really convinced in needs a separate document (as opposed to an upgrade to 
JWK).

Cheers,
--Richard
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