Yes a JWT and not a JWT claim-set.  So you have to look back at JWT to see that 
a JWT is a JWE or JWS with allowing for recursion a JWT claim-set as the 
payload.


On 2013-05-29, at 9:14 PM, "Jim Schaad" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Interesting fragment from the signature draft section 4.1.9
>  
> For example, the JSON Web
>    Token (JWT) [JWT] specification uses the "cty" value "JWT" to
>    indicate that the Payload is a JSON Web Token (JWT).
>  
>  
> From: Mike Jones [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:42 PM
> To: Dick Hardt; John Bradley
> Cc: Jim Schaad; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field
>  
> Actually, John, the text in the JWT spec is:
>  
> 5.1.  "typ" (Type) Header Parameter
>  
>  
>    The "typ" (type) header parameter is used to declare the type of this
>    object.  If present, it is RECOMMENDED that its value be either "JWT"
>    or "urn:ietf:params:oauth:token-type:jwt" to indicate that this
>    object is a JWT.  The "typ" value is a case sensitive string.  Use of
>    this header parameter is OPTIONAL.
>  
> The reason I’m pointing this out is that your message could be read to mean 
> that the JWT spec requires the use of the “typ” parameter, which it doesn’t.  
> What it does do is RECOMMEND values to use, should they be useful in context. 
>  It needs to remain OPTIONAL.
>  
> Answering Dick’s question “What else would it unwrap to?” – if you have a 
> nested JWT, it could unwrap to a JWT which was the Payload or Plaintext 
> value, rather than a JWT Claims Set.
>  
>                                                                 -- Mike
>  
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dick 
> Hardt
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:30 PM
> To: John Bradley
> Cc: Jim Schaad; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:25 PM, John Bradley <[email protected]> wrote:
> In the JWT spec the value of "typ" SHOULD be "jwt".   That indicates as Mike 
> stated that it is a JWT in compact format that has as its body a jwt claim 
> set.   If the claim set is signed then encrypted, the inner JWT has a a typ 
> of jwt and no cty , and the outer one has a typ of JWT and a cty of jws.
>  
> I'm doing symmetric encryption with an integrity check, so I don't have a JWT 
> in a JWE
>  
>  
> If a JOSE object has a typ of jws then one would assume that it is a jws in 
> compact serialization with some other body type then a jwt claimset.
>  
> I think this is somewhat a symptom of the JWT and JOSE specs getting split 
> into different WG.
>  
> So Mike can correct me but I don't think putting jwe or jws in typ is the 
> intended use of that element if you are in fact sending JWT.
>  
> I understand where Jim is coming from I think of JWT as a jwt claim-set and 
> JWE and JWS as the outer layer, where JWT thinks of itself as a total 
> security token definition including overall processing rules for security 
> tokens, with a standard envelope segment and JWE or JWS encoding as 
> determined by the alg.
>  
> That is confusing to me.
>  
>  
> In security token processing knowing that what you have will unwrap to a JWT 
> claim-set , rather than to some other thing is quite important.
>  
> What else would it unwrap to?
>  
>  
> John B.
>  
>  
> On 2013-05-29, at 7:56 PM, Dick Hardt <[email protected]> wrote:
>  
> 
> I use it all the time and my code would barf if it was not there.
>  
> I think it should be required rather than be a hint if it is going ot be 
> there.
>  
> 
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Jim Schaad <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think the values just changed
>  
> However the way you are using it would be an argument to say that it should 
> be a required field.  Are you just using it as a hint if it exists and then 
> looking at the rest of the fields if it is not present?
>  
> Jim
>  
>  
> From: Dick Hardt [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:49 PM
> To: Jim Schaad
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field
>  
> Well, I have been using, but now realize the spec changed or I was confused.
>  
> I had been setting "typ" to be either "JWE" or "JWS" depending on the type of 
> token I was creating or parsing as it was easier than looking at "alg"
>  
> As currently defined, I don't see value in "typ".
>  
> -- Dick
>  
>  
> 
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Jim Schaad <[email protected]> wrote:
> In reading the documents, I am trying to understand the justification for 
> having the “typ” header parameter in the JOSE documents.
>  
> The purpose of the field is to hold the type of the object.  In the past, I 
> believe that values which should now be placed in the cty field (such as 
> “JWT”) were placed in this field as well.  However the parameter is optional 
> and an implementation cannot rely on its being present.  This means that for 
> all practical purposes all of the code to determine the value of the type 
> field from the values of the alg and enc fields.  If the field was mandatory 
> then this code would disappear at a fairly small space cost and I can 
> understand why the parameter would be present.
>  
> Can anybody justify why this field should be present in the document – or 
> should it just disappear?
>  
> Jim
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> -- Dick
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> -- Dick
> _______________________________________________
> jose mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose
>  
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> -- Dick

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