The case can be made that the working group has had this opportunity to choose 
an answer during the entire life of the working group and the answer has never 
varied - there should be a small set of commonly implement required algorithms 
to promote interoperability.  This has been true in all 26 working group drafts 
of JWA, going back to draft-ietf-jose-json-web-algorithms-00 in January 2012.

The +/- notation was added to the Implementation Requirements at the suggestion 
of Sean Turner in JWA draft -03 in January, 2013.

The question of required algorithms was explicitly considered as JOSE issue 
#10: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/jose/trac/ticket/10.  Despite there being a 
minority of working group participants (primarily you, Richard, as I recall) 
who opposed MTI algorithms, most seemed to be in favor.

I personally don't see it as being productive to try to re-open this already 
heavily discussed issue now.

                                                                -- Mike

From: jose [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 10:18 AM
To: John Bradley
Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jose] Implementation Requirements



On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Richard Barnes 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Let me address this in two parts, first with my IESG hat on, and then as an 
individual.

<hat type="IESG">
The IESG does NOT think that a set of mandatory algorithms in JWA is a 
requirement for interoperability.

Clarification: I did not mean to imply that the IESG has an opinion one way or 
another on this issue.  It hasn't been brought up.  But there are at least a 
couple of members of the IESG who do not believe that mandatory algorithms are 
a requirement.

In other words: The IESG hasn't made up its collective mind on this yet, so the 
WG has an opportunity to choose an answer and make an argument for it.


After having discussed this with Kathleen and Sean: There are several different 
ways to address interoperability with a framework protocol like JOSE.  CMS 
provides a fine example of how algorithms can be left flexible at the security 
layer, with applications like S/MIME defining algorithm requirements.  
Algorithm agility is another important consideration in security protocol 
design, and locking in algorithms too deeply can hinder updates in the future.
</hat>

<hat type="individual">
I continue to be concerned that having mandatory algorithms for JOSE will make 
two types of applications non-compliant:
1. JOSE implementations are often going to not have any choice in what 
algorithms they can support.  They're going to be built on top of crypto 
libraries, which either support an algorithm or they don't.  It's pointless to 
levy requirements at the JOSE layer.
2. Constrained devices aren't going to want to implement a whole boatload of 
algorithms, just the ones they need for their use cases.

Limiting the requirement to "standalone JOSE libraries" doesn't address either 
of these concerns.

As a compromise, how about if we define a RECOMMENDED suite of common 
algorithms?  That would help guide implementations toward interop without 
ruling out the above use cases.
</hat>

Hope that helps clarify things,
--Richard

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:09 AM, John Bradley 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The IESG wants to see interoperability between implementations, to do that 
without dragging in discovery etc there need to be minimum feature sets of JOSE 
libraries that people can count on.

A application using JOSE can elect not to support all the algorithms,  but JOSE 
libraries need to support the mandatory to implement algorithms.

On Apr 14, 2014, at 9:48 AM, Hannes Tschofenig 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Hi all,

I am looking at the implementation requirements of the JWA spec and I am 
wondering to what deployment environment they refer they.
The JW* specs are generic building blocks and I fail to see how one can list 
mandatory-to-implement algorithsms.

Ciao
Hannes

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