On 2018-10-11 21:03, Carsten Bormann wrote:
On Oct 11, 2018, at 20:23, Phil Hunt <[email protected]> wrote:

I am not sure of the value of canonicalization.  I prefer bytestream encoding 
style where the original content goes with the signature.

I’m afraid a lot of people are sitting in front of their screens silently 
agreeing, but not typing anything because their hands are tied up in an 
interminable facepalm.

Those who are not stuck in an a ever-lasting facepalm may not be entirely 
comfortable with signature schemes that completely change the structure of 
signed messages. COSE do this as well?

Well, you can of course add artificial unsigned layers (like the TEEP folks do), but that 
smells "workaround" rather than solution.

thanx,
Anders



So, for the record:
To the people asking for a c14n solution for signature: If you want XMLDSig, 
you know where to find it.
The basic approach of having humongous XML documents that get signatures added 
to themselves as part of the document only makes sense in certain processing 
models that went out of favor with XML.
JOSE does the right thing for more modern applications.

I’m not opposed to doing some “c14n” work on serialization schemes — 
deterministic serialization has other applications than just XMLDSig.
That would be work for a JSONbis WG (but I fear the interest level among JSON 
experts will be low).
I definitely do not like giving the message that c14n-based signatures are the 
new thing that will replace doing the right thing (JOSE, that is).

Grüße, Carsten

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