I have coded both ways and have found tags to be useful when there is a lot
of validation in the tags or specialized processing. Otherwise, JSP tags do
not reduce bugs or system maintainability (over using beans/model2)
Just my $0.02
Daniel
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Prescott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Taglibs - too complicated?
> I agree with you completely, Dan.
>
> In our last project our servlets were passing beans to JSP pages, and in
> some of these the simplest way to get data out of them was a few lines of
> Java code in the JSP.
>
> I'm not convinced that the complete separation of HTML and Java is a
> particularly worthy goal. Like you, I'm a Java developer that's quite
good
> with HTML and Javascript, and perhaps this slants my perspective.
>
> Given that it's so easy to write a short scriptlet to invoke a custom Bean
> of some kind, perhaps you'd start thinking about making a taglib when you
> find that you're writing the same non-trivial scriptlet over and over
again.
>
> The needs of the taglib users, however, would also have to be fairly
> stable - otherwise you'd have them pestering the taglib authors for
> revisions from time to time. The taglib authors might end up thinking
that
> it would be easier for them to edit scriptlets rather than update or
> creating new tags.
>
> Imagining myself in the shoes of an HTML writer interfacing with the
> development team through taglibs, I think I'd feel like I was being kept
at
> arm's length from "what's really going on" - I much prefer calling a
method
> to declarative styles of programming, but maybe that's just me too! :-)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kirkdorffer, Daniel
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 3:39 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Taglibs - too complicated?
>
>
> Having returned from a tiring but interesting JavaOne (hey, why not just
go
> 24 hours next year?!) I wanted to comment on JSP taglibs.
>
> As one of those supposedly rare Java developers able to design Web pages
(so
> we are always being told), I like using the oft maligned Scriptlets to
> handle two things in my JSP: conditional actions, and looping actions.
>
> Due to the buzz being made with JSP 1.1 and taglibs, I attended every
taglib
> session and BOF to find out more about them, and it would seem that to do
> these things through taglibs appears to require quite a considerable
effort
> (I readily admit I have never written a taglib tag - but the explanations
> sure weren't easy to follow).
>
> So the argument goes like this:
>
> - Java developers don't know Web design and Web designers can't handle
Java
> coding, so Scriptlets don't achieve the perfect world separation of Java
> from HTML.
> - So replace all use of Scriptlets with JSP 1.1 taglibs. These will make
> the Web designer's task easy.
>
> Perhaps. Certainly doesn't look like it makes the Java developer's tasks
> any easier.
>
> There is another alternative to this approach IMO: better trained Web
> designers who can understand simple IF-THEN and FOR-loop constructs.
>
> After all, an IF-THEN in Java looks just like an IF-THEN in Javascript,
and
> a FOR-loop in Java is no different than a FOR-loop in Javascript, and Web
> designers should definitely be familiar with Javascript. Ok, in Java you
> use "equals()" to do conditional comparisons of Strings. That isn't
really
> hard to learn.
>
> I know the argument I'm making will not be terribly convincing to many,
but
> let's not dumb down the official explanations for using taglibs and let's
> admit the additional complexities taglibs present.
>
> The one place I do see a benefit is with WYSIWYG tools. However, I've
never
> been much of a fan of them.
>
> Anyway, great to see the huge interest in JSPs as made evident by the size
> of the audiences at JSP related sessions.
>
> JSP books are also proliferating fast which is nice to see.
>
> Also, it was nice to finally meet Craig McClanahan and thank him in person
> for all his help on this list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dan
> --
> Daniel Kirkdorffer
> NACN IS: 425-580-6225
> Sr. Consultant, Syllogistics LLC
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web: http://www.syllogistics.com/
>
>
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> Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
>
> http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
> http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
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>
>
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> Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
>
> http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
> http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
> http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
> http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
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Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
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http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
