After briefly playing with taglibs over the weekend, I think taglibs
will make the most sense to add funcationality that should be
standardized
One example that I'm trying to work on is a 'tree' tag. You know a
collapsable/expandable list of elements. It's an element should be
part of HTML, but it's not. Nearly everyone has their favorite (if you
can call it that) Javascript version, but the Javascript is tough to
understand and hard to customize. While not that difficult to do in
JSP, it would be easier to create a taglib for a tree, so that I can
concentrate on populating the tree than how I would build it.
A second example is a mail tag. Sending mail is very common
need in a web application. Sure it's trivial to write a mail servlet or
add mail code straight to a JSP page. But why should I take time
out to write the code if I can do something like:
<mail>
....
</mail>
and be done?
While building taglibs can(is) confusing for the unitiated (though
there are a lot harder things to build than a taglib), hopefully,
taglibs will likely be built as components that we can obtain and
install, leaving the heavy lifting to taglib authors.
I also don't think that you have to choose model 2 over taglibs. To
me model2 is an architecture philosophy, where taglibs are like pre-
built parts that make it easier to construct things under a particular
architecture.
Mark
On 12 Jun 00, at 17:03, Michael Prescott wrote:
> I agree with you completely, Dan.
>
> In our last project our servlets were passing beans to JSP pages, and in
> some of these the simplest way to get data out of them was a few lines of
> Java code in the JSP.
>
> I'm not convinced that the complete separation of HTML and Java is a
> particularly worthy goal. Like you, I'm a Java developer that's quite good
> with HTML and Javascript, and perhaps this slants my perspective.
>
> Given that it's so easy to write a short scriptlet to invoke a custom Bean
> of some kind, perhaps you'd start thinking about making a taglib when you
> find that you're writing the same non-trivial scriptlet over and over again.
>
> The needs of the taglib users, however, would also have to be fairly
> stable - otherwise you'd have them pestering the taglib authors for
> revisions from time to time. The taglib authors might end up thinking that
> it would be easier for them to edit scriptlets rather than update or
> creating new tags.
>
> Imagining myself in the shoes of an HTML writer interfacing with the
> development team through taglibs, I think I'd feel like I was being kept at
> arm's length from "what's really going on" - I much prefer calling a method
> to declarative styles of programming, but maybe that's just me too! :-)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kirkdorffer, Daniel
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 3:39 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Taglibs - too complicated?
>
>
> Having returned from a tiring but interesting JavaOne (hey, why not just go
> 24 hours next year?!) I wanted to comment on JSP taglibs.
>
> As one of those supposedly rare Java developers able to design Web pages (so
> we are always being told), I like using the oft maligned Scriptlets to
> handle two things in my JSP: conditional actions, and looping actions.
>
> Due to the buzz being made with JSP 1.1 and taglibs, I attended every taglib
> session and BOF to find out more about them, and it would seem that to do
> these things through taglibs appears to require quite a considerable effort
> (I readily admit I have never written a taglib tag - but the explanations
> sure weren't easy to follow).
>
> So the argument goes like this:
>
> - Java developers don't know Web design and Web designers can't handle Java
> coding, so Scriptlets don't achieve the perfect world separation of Java
> from HTML.
> - So replace all use of Scriptlets with JSP 1.1 taglibs. These will make
> the Web designer's task easy.
>
> Perhaps. Certainly doesn't look like it makes the Java developer's tasks
> any easier.
>
> There is another alternative to this approach IMO: better trained Web
> designers who can understand simple IF-THEN and FOR-loop constructs.
>
> After all, an IF-THEN in Java looks just like an IF-THEN in Javascript, and
> a FOR-loop in Java is no different than a FOR-loop in Javascript, and Web
> designers should definitely be familiar with Javascript. Ok, in Java you
> use "equals()" to do conditional comparisons of Strings. That isn't really
> hard to learn.
>
> I know the argument I'm making will not be terribly convincing to many, but
> let's not dumb down the official explanations for using taglibs and let's
> admit the additional complexities taglibs present.
>
> The one place I do see a benefit is with WYSIWYG tools. However, I've never
> been much of a fan of them.
>
> Anyway, great to see the huge interest in JSPs as made evident by the size
> of the audiences at JSP related sessions.
>
> JSP books are also proliferating fast which is nice to see.
>
> Also, it was nice to finally meet Craig McClanahan and thank him in person
> for all his help on this list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dan
> --
> Daniel Kirkdorffer
> NACN IS: 425-580-6225
> Sr. Consultant, Syllogistics LLC
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web: http://www.syllogistics.com/
>
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> Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
>
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>
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> Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
>
> http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
> http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
> http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
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>
>
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