The problem with JSP is there are a lot of poor references on the web.
Nothing compared to the support that Micro$oft has for it's ASP framework.
There is the spec, which is tedious, hard to read, and poorly organized (I
know, I tried referring to it when I first started to learn JSP). In general
most Java references are poorly written and assume the "happy day" scenario.
Troubleshooting JSP is almost non-existent. There is one page in the Sun
Java tutorial which proved useful, it talked about "problems you'll run into
when you first start writing Java code". The error messages that the Java
compiler and JSP engines return are cryptic at best, useless at worst, AND
poorly documented as well.
Discussion lists such as this one are often the best/only source of "real
world" information and troubleshooting that most people starting to learn
JSP have available to them. If anyone doesn't like the list, feel free to
start your own. To reply to people in a condescending way is unacceptable.
Also remember that, so far, ALL of the Java/JSP references are written in
ENGLISH. Many people asking questions do not speak/read English as their
first language and the technical references (especially the spec) may not be
as easy for them to read as the replies in here.
So perhaps Mr Ottinger (and others) should stop and re-read their replies
before hitting "Send".
P.S. replying to a posted message saying "no no no, this is off topic. you
shouldn't attempt to answer a question if you don't know the answer" as I
saw Geert Van Damme do is pointless and rude. If you are going to complain
about the question, at least answer it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Karau, Joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 11:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Joseph Ottinger
I agree with Joseph as well. There are way to many subscribers to this list
asking either off-topic, or "simple" questions. They are, in my opinion,
being quite lazy.
Those asking off-topic questions should probably try to find the appropriate
forum for their questions, they would probably get more responses, and those
that they received would also probably be better.
Those asking the "simple" questions, the questions themselves may not really
be simple, but if they would try to spend time searching for the appropriate
reference and answering it themselves they will learn much more than if
somebody else just answers the question for them.
Mailing lists such as this are an excellent way for programmers to probe the
knowledge and experience of other programmers who have experienced similar
problems. However, by simply answering all of these off-topic posts, and
"simple" questions without at least suggesting that they find the right
place to ask them, or spend some time trying to figure it out themselves,
will only increase the frequency that such questions are posted. Thus,
bringing down the usefulness of the list.
As far as the personal attacks on Joseph whenever he posts a reply that may
be less than utterly polite, why? OK, his replies may seem very abrupt,
sometimes condescending, and a little less than professional. However, is
it professional to go ask your secretary how to execute a simple SQL
statement, no because she would be the wrong person to ask and that is
fundamentally what the people that are posting off-topic questions are
doing, asking the wrong person. So, if you don't like his relies, don't
read them, but there is no need to constantly flame him.
By the way Joseph, I'd be more than interested in joining a JSP list that
focuses more on JSP.
Joseph Karau
Kingland Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
507-536-3629
AIM: jkara3629
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Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
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To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST".
For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST".
Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
