As I probably mentioned before, I really wouldn't recommend any "Unless
otherwise noted"; if it's not Apache-licensed, we don't need it, and we
don't want anybody putting stuff up on our Wikis and then claiming their
own copyright. From day one, 100% Apache licensed, or don't give it to
us. The % of material on jspwiki.org that is both useful and not
present elsewhere (docs, Apache JSP website, our upcoming ASL-licensed
Wiki) is probably sitting at around 20-40% and will continue to fall
over time.
Where I work with Talend (as well as with competitor companies), we rely
on the Apache-licensed nature of the documentation (CXF, Karaf, Camel,
etc.) which allows us to comfortably incorporate the text into our own
documentation when making commercial wraps of the software. The
documentation loses much of its usefulness unless companies have the
full confidence that whatever they take, whereever, it's 100% ASL and
not littered with sometimes hard-to-see land mines of non-ASL material.
Strictly speaking, it's not necessary for us to take over jspwiki.org to
leave graduation--we can't be responsible for sites outside of our
control (again, jspwiki.org is Janne's "other hat", outside of the
control of the Apache JSPWiki team), any more than Apache Chemistry is
responsible for the presence of chemistry.org or chemistry.com. As far
as graduation is concerned, AFAICT all we need to do is remove the link
to jspwiki.org from the Apache JSPWiki site and that formally
disassociates ourselves from that site, we're done. (Actually, even
that might not be required.) In the unlikely event Apache Legal has a
problem with jspwiki.org cybersquatting then Legal can send a C&D letter
to Janne (of which I'm sure the latter would be only too thrilled to
comply :), but that has nothing to do with us for graduation purposes,
that's between Legal and Janne. jspwiki.org is loaded with unusable
"orphan works" and we can't be blamed for not wanting to incorporate it.
Again, I recommend Janne do (1) and (2) below -- put in a sentence
stressing the deprecated nature of jspwiki.org, refer people to Apache
JSPWiki, and remove the aforementioned left-side menu items appropriate
for a living project (cybersquatting concerns should be taken care of
right there.) Then he can keep that site open and read-only for as long
as *he* likes until *he* decides to retire it (i.e., have it return
404), I don't see it having many more months of useful shelf life. We
really don't need jspwiki.org anymore IMO.
Anyway, just my $0.02, I see nothing suggested as vetoable.
Glen
On 02/10/2013 04:56 PM, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez wrote:
Hi Glen,
regarding the legal issue of doc, sandbox and www, maybe just changing the
footer to something similar to:
Unless otherwise noted, contributions to this wiki are licensed
to the Apache Software Foundation as contributions under the
Apache License, version 2.0.
could be enough (cfr [#1], thread beginning in [#2]). Let's see legal's
advice (especially for www).
br,
juan pablo
[#1]: http://s.apache.org/1pR
[#2]: http://s.apache.org/Asl
On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Glen Mazza <glen.ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds good, and thank you. I really want to return to coding right now
(in particular, that Maven pom file), but unfortunately have work
constraints ATM hopefully I can fix soon. Moving doc and sandbox to Apache
would be fantastic IMO, especially more so if the corresponding sites on
jspwiki.org can be shut down as a result--but we don't have any control
over jspwiki.org so we cannot be faulted over its contents (Janne has two
hats--Apache JSPWiki team member and that of jspwiki.org owner, but I'm
just referring to the first hat that all of us have.) My main concern
before doing so is, what do we need to do so that all the content on the
Wiki is immediately Apache-licensed, and that whatever anybody places there
automatically becomes Apache-licensed as well? The Confluence Wikis at
cxf.apache.org and camel.apache.org are instantly Apache-licensed--is
there some blurb on the Confluence Wikis we need to put on the JSPWikis to
ensure that?
Glen
On 02/10/2013 02:53 PM, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez wrote:
Hi,
ok, retaking the original thread, I'm filling/updating relevant JIRAs now.
Regarding Java 6 and dropping TranslatorReader I'll asume lazy consensus
(=nobody has disagreed) and marking them for 2.9.1. I'll tackle them in a
few days though, to give space to anyone not agreeing on targetting this
for 2.9.1 release.
As for the wikis location, how about moving doc and sandbox to apache
infra? so we can request the VM, begin setting up the wikis etc. I'll also
ping legal for the www.jspwiki.org issue
br,
juan pablo
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 12:26 AM, Glen Mazza <glen.ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
What I'm asking you to do could take as little as 15 minutes. Outside of
a sentence referring everyone to Apache JSPWiki, you're just *removing*
links, converting the site to a read-only legacy project page in the
process. If you wish to grant me write access temporarily to
jspwiki.org,
I'll happily get this done.
The more you shrink this read-only site, the less there is to maintain
and
hence the less work you need to do for it. Continuing to maintain the
site
in a bloated state (do we really need links to dmoz and yahoo?) probably
is
what's causing you to want to run away from it.
Glen
On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, Janne Jalkanen wrote:
I will gladly send a tarball of the current wiki contents and transfer
the domain to anyone who wants to pick up the site maintenance.
/Janne
On Feb 3, 2013, at 15:10 , Glen Mazza <glen.ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
"I'd rather use the time to contribute to JSPWiki" ? Rest assured,
there is no greater service you can perform right now than getting rid
of
yesterday's lard from jspwiki.org so we don't need to look
at/discuss/ooh and aah it and can more clearly grasp what we need to
move
over. Especially since you are most knowledgable about what is no
longer
important. The first action on "How do we move 500K of text over?" is
"How
do we make it 200K of text?" It's harder to focus on the say 6 issues
that
matter if they must always be interspersed with 15 items nobody cares
about.
I think there are two more changes needed for that site:
1.) The top of jspwiki.org main should stress that the project has now
moved to Apache and that this is just a legacy site for older versions
of
JSPWiki.org that will be periodically reduced as the information
becomes
obsolete or moves to regular Apache sites. jspwiki.org needs to stop
acting like it's the main website for JSPWiki.
2.) Accordingly with #1 above, remove the following left-side menu
items
(and their associated pages) that are either obsolete or incorrectly
give
the appearance of jspwiki.org being a live site--links in the latter
category have already been taken over by the Apache JSPWiki site:
News,
Recent Changes, User Preferences, About, IRC Channel, Mailing List,
Weblog,
Getting Involved, JSP Wiki Testers, Open bugs, Report new bug, New
Ideas?,
What's up?, SandBox, Dmoz, Google, Yahoo. If there's any information
on
those pages that you would like to see moved first to the Apache site
(I
don't see any myself), we can keep those particular links until we
move the
data over. But for links for which you're in agreement with me are
obsolete, it would be great to delete them now so they don't continue
to
serve as distractions.
Regards,
Glen
On 02/02/2013 02:53 PM, Janne Jalkanen wrote:
Well, I had time to clean up the wiki, I'd rather use the time to
contribute to JSPWiki ;-)
The doc wiki shouldn't have any copyright issues. That can be moved.
/Janne
On Feb 1, 2013, at 01:39 , Glen Mazza<glen.ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
I wish Janne, you would have gone through jspwiki.org and deleted
the
20-60% of the site that is obsolete today. Let's shrink the problem
and
see where we are after that. At any rate,http://www.jspwiki.org/,
as
you describe it, is an orphan work and probably not usable for us.
Maybe
we should just shut it down. If we create our own Wiki (with
everything
henceforth Apache licensed), within a few to several months it will
probably repopulate with the most useful material that was on the
old site
anyway. I would suspect pure facts fromwww.jspwiki.org *can* be
transferred to the new site as facts aren't copyrightable.
Can the Commons-licensedhttp://doc.**j**spwiki.org/2.4/<http://jspwiki.org/2.4/>
<http://doc.**jspwiki.org/2.4/ <http://doc.jspwiki.org/2.4/>> be
donated to Apache or does it have the same copyright problem ashttp://
www.jspwiki.org/ ? It would be nice if we could movehttp://
doc.jspwiki.org/2.**4/ <http://doc.jspwiki.org/2.4/> to the Apache
site.
Quote: "Well, because of trademark issues it would be odd that Apache
would use the word JSPWiki and I'd have still control of the
domain." Not
necessarily, Apache doesn't
ownwww.chemistry.com,www.**tom**cat.com<http://tomcat.com>
<http://www.tomcat.com>
,www.pig.com,www.**chemistry.**org <http://chemistry.org> <
http://www.chemistry.org>,
www.camel.com, and probably many others. I think the main thing
though is that the site can't act like it's the Apache product. With
the
two sites above shut down or moved to Apache, you might just be able
to
release the domain instead of giving it to Apache.
Glen
On 01/31/2013 04:12 PM, Janne Jalkanen wrote:
Well, because of trademark issues it would be odd that Apache would
use the word JSPWiki and I'd have still control of the domain. I
can't
recall whether I already did the paperwork passing the name to ASF,
or
whether it was needed in the first place, but I think the consensus
was
that it's better that ASF takes control of jspwiki.org - even if
it's nothing but a redirect to jspwiki.apache.org/wiki or
wiki.jspwiki.apache.org or something.
As to the content, that I can't donate to ASF (because of mixed
copyrights), so if someone else wants to take a copy and run it on
their
server under some other domain name (or ASF graciously allows the
use of
old.jspwiki.org ;-). I cannot run it here anymore for legal
reasons.
/Janne
On Jan 31, 2013, at 00:31 , Glen Mazza<glen.ma...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I think we should get JSPWIKI-739 done before considering
"hatching"
out of incubation. Right now, all of our documentation is off the
Apache
site and our informal Wiki ("Legacy Site") is under lock-and-key
due to
Finnish legal reasons.
We do not need to shut down the jspwiki.org site--as that's a
third-party site we have no control over it (the fact that it's
owned by a
JSPWiki committer doesn't matter, it's a third-party site and from
an
Apache JSPWiki perspective it is outside of our control.) But we
should
have our system documentation and probably a Wiki to be *on* the
Apache
site, even if it's duplicated by third party sites like
jspwiki.org.
I would like to get the Infra folks to host a JSPWiki site (we
are *sooo*
much faster than Confluence Wikis, and we could probably get other
Apache
projects to adopt us) but if they won't do that, and our only
options are
(1) hosting our documentation off Apache using JSPWiki or (2)
hosting our
documentation on Apache w/Confluence Wiki, perhaps (2), however
unpleasant,
should be evaluated.
Glen
On 01/30/2013 04:24 PM, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez wrote:
Hi!
all the "management" stuff is done, I think that it's just matter
of
demonstrating community readiness/knowing the apache way, which is
something rather difuse. Our next board report is due to next
April, so
arriving there with a second release and exposing our intentions
of
graduating (previous discussions, voting) should be enough to pass
the
graduation IPMC vote, IMO.
@mentors, WDYT?
br,
juan pablo
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Harry Metske<
harry.met...@gmail.com>****wrote:
+1
but what about graduation, what steps are still necessary, we
can't stay in
the incubator forever...
kind regards,
Harry
On 28 January 2013 21:38, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez <
juanpablo.san...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
2.9.0 was released last December, and I was wondering if we
could
release
2.9.1, somewhere in late March*.
2.9.1 would be mainly a manteinance release, including not only
~15 fixed
issues, or whatever the number of issues solved by then, but
also:
* requirement of at least Java 6 to compile (as Java 6 is being
outdated
this February I think it isn't a break-dealer)
* ChangeLog published on site
* initial maven support (JSPWIKI-651)
* drop TranslatorReader (deprecated since 2.3 and unused in src)
The last one should -technically- be done on 2.10 scope, but
it's
been
ages
since it was deprecated and unused... Anyone using it nowadays,
is it
safe
to remove? Thoughts on the other points?
* saying "late March", but meaning "as the points agreed to be
included
in
2.9.1 are done"
br,
juan pablo
