I'm still searching for something that makes sense on the top layer. I don't want to have to program a web interface, so the tendency towards Model 2 MVC and away from JSP-based systems is a pain.
I find Struts [and I think JSF though I've only read about that in draft reviews] quite slow to work with as there's a lot of programming for things that ought to be easier to do and have a much faster feedback loop in development. Tapestry was also a big pain. While it has some nice ideas, it feels very hard to re-use existing knowledge. When I wanted to have a sorted column on html table, and then wanted to make the column sort in both directions, it wasn't just a case of inserting a ReverseComparator somewhere easily. Tapestry still feels a lot like a black box with non-obvious ways to do things. I looked at WebWork last night, but it still seems to be the basic model 2 MVC concept, with lots of xml file creation and classes to code. I would look at velocity, but from what I know most of the velocity ideas have been included in the latest JSP specs. Cocoon just doesn't really fit what I want in most cases. There was a time when I played with XSP and considered going that way, but the xml chain approach never felt comfortable. Still, is still an interesting approach with much going for it. So I find myself using simple, easy, quick JSP [with JSTL, taglibs]. Admittedly the last couple of years have seen me do far less front-end web UI than previous years. I'm playing with something at the moment that will sit on top of hibernate. Does anyone have any good ideas for a presentation layer to sit on top of that? Hen On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > Personally I think JSF is a deranged mess. After watching Craig and his > clan go over at JavaOne I was like "and this is 'better'???"... However I > asked him, he said that Struts would have a JSF compatibility layer. > Theoretically JSF is the same idea as EJB only for the UI layer or that�s > what they're billing it as. Theoretically, you're not going to write all of > the stuffola surrounding it, you're going to buy Sun's tools. > > If you want MVC...look at Tapestry, it doesn't suck. > (http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry) > > -Andy > > > On 9/25/03 6:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Don Brady wrote: > > > >> (2) Open source developers were largely left out of the JSF JSR 127 (see > >> http://java.sun.com/j2ee/javaserverfaces/ ). They will left to a very > >> late start compared to the members of the JSR, and will not get source > >> code,as far as I know (or at least have not got it yet). Is this a major > >> error? > > > > Depends. Looking at the list of members on the EG, Craig [lead] is also > > the lead on Apache Struts. Shawn Bayern was a lead on JSTL, James Strachan > > [taglib author, one of the Geronimo people etc] was on there and the ASF > > had another person [I presume] though I've no idea how that part works. > > > > I believe Struts have had a plan for JSF for a while. The biggest problem > > is that the JCP doesn't allow an open source project to discuss plans for > > a JSR with anyone who isn't on the JCP [which means they have to assume no > > one is on the JCP], so it appears as though they're being quiet. > > > > In addition, David Geary and Hans Bergsten definitely represent the > > individual developer. > > > > Hen > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Juglist mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org > > -- > Andrew C. Oliver > http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp > Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI > > http://jakarta.apache.org/poi > For Java and Excel, Got POI? > > The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost > definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its > general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with > everything espoused in the above email. > > > _______________________________________________ > Juglist mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org > _______________________________________________ Juglist mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org
