[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I tend to avoid GUI programming and only get involved on the planning 
> and troubleshooting side of such things.  That being said, in my travels 
> it seems most larger struts/jsp shops are looking to alternatives at 
> this point.  Most haven't done it yet, but many are looking for 
> "something better".

I second this opinion.  As the manager of a development department that is 
currently using struts/jsp, I am very anxious to move us to another technology. 
 The difficulty, as some have pointed out, is finding enough time between all 
the projects we are currently doing.

Struts is painfully cumbersome, IMHO.  It comes with some nice tools (like form 
validation and automation for building option lists in a form), but it just 
seems to become a big tangled mess after a while.  There is no valid reason 
(that I can think of) why I should have to touch 5 different files (and that 
assumes the Model portion of MVC is already written) in order to make one 
screen function.  It bothers me enough that HTTP forces me to pass everything 
around as strings and lose the compile-time checking and type-safe variables 
that I love about Java.  Then you encounter Struts, and it wants *everything* 
to be string based.  It seems a little extreme.  Not to mention that on any 
project of reasonable size, struts-config.xml begins to approach 1000 lines.  
That many entries just becomes unmanageable at some point.

It sounds like there is a majority support on this list that Tapestry is an 
alternative with strong merit.  If there are any valid reasons one could point 
out as to why we shouldn't waste our time on it, I would love to hear them.  
For now, though, I am going to ask our chief architect to evaluate it for use 
in the next round of projects.

Are there any other frameworks people recommend?  I have noticed two or three 
on freshmeat.net that claim to provide both a SWING application and a web 
application from the same codebase.  We have been intending to evaluate these, 
as well.

Kind regards,
Justis Peters

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