To anyone who is not the author/maintainer/deeply knowledgeable about a charm, a hook error is doom. There is only one hammer an average user of Juju can use in that case, and it's juju resolved --retry. If we can do that automatically for our users, then it can be a big help to cover up for an imperfect charm (and no charm is perfect). The range of transient things that can go wrong is infinite, and it's unrealistic to assume every single charm will handle every single problem. Not to mention that some problems are simply not possible to handle (OOM, reboot, etc). This can only make Juju more reliable and more user-friendly.
The knowledge level of people like Dean and James is *far *beyond that of an average user of Juju. When they see a hook error, they can go analyze the logs and status output and figure out whether an error is likely to get resolved by a retry, and know if the charm should be updated to account for this case. But we shouldn't expect average users to have that depth of knowledge. Yes, we should absolutely be able to turn off hook retries in the environment config, specifically for dev, testing, and expert users like those in our organization. But by default, they should retry. To do otherwise would be a disservice to our users. On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:31 PM William Reade <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Dean Henrichsmeyer <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> You realize James was complaining and not celebrating the "success" ? The >> fact that we can have a discussion trying to determine whether something is >> a bug or a feature indicates a problem. >> > > Sorry, I didn't intend to disparage his experience; I took it as > legitimate and reasonable surprise at a change we evidently didn't > communicate adequately. But I don't think it's a misfeature; I think it's a > necessary approach, in service of global reliability in challenging > environments. > > But: if there are times it's inconvenient and not just surprising, we > should surely be able to disable it. Gabriel/Bogdan, would you be able to > address this? > > Cheers > William > -- > Juju-dev mailing list > [email protected] > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/juju-dev >
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