> On okt 24, 2016, 11 a.m., Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > -1 it's an established shortcut for cut too. even > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts lists it in "Cut > > the selection and store it in the clipboard" > > Elvis Angelaccio wrote: > Ah, sorry I didn't know that. Still, the conflict is caused by kconfig > itself and it's being worked around by applications. What should we do then? > > Heiko Tietze wrote: > This question was asked last year on the mailing list > https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-guidelines/2015-June/thread.html#877. > Shift+Del dates back to the medieval ages but was never reverted and is still > in our HIG. The discussion didn't end with a solution. And I strongly suggest > to have a generic solution that works in all programs. Btw, Krusader uses > Shift+Del for permanently delete files. > > Elvis Angelaccio wrote: > Thanks for the link. So if I understand the issue correctly, we should > first agree upon another primary shortcut for "Force Delete" and replace > Shift+Del with that, at least in KConfig. What about Meta+Del like Thomas > suggested? > > Heiko Tietze wrote: > 1. Do we want to retain IBM shortcuts used for decades? Yes, keep > shift+del as alternative to ctrl+X; No, drop the unknown shortcut. > 2a. If 1)=Yes, do we want to have a similar shortcut for permanently > delete? Yes, meta+del/alt+del... No, use something completely different and > app specific > 2b. If 1)=No, do we want to have an easy shortcut for destructive > functions? Yes, use ctrl+del for convenience. No, make it hard to > unintentionally run destructive functions; rather use > shift+alt+del/ctrl+alt+del or the like. > > (My take is 2b and No; but it has to work in _every_ KDE app unless the > app defines its own behavior) > > Albert Astals Cid wrote: > My suggestion is: > > * Cut is Ctrl+X and Shift+Delete by default > * DeleteFile is Shift+Delete by default > > **if** both Cut and DeleteFile are used in the same action collection we > disable Shift+Delete from Cut (only if it's there by default and it was not > the user that set it on purpose) > > That should be *doable* hopefully. > > Mark Gaiser wrote: > I would not do that. It would be unexpected behavior when the user > deletes a file (in for instance dolphin) and expects it to end up in the > trash. With your suggestion it would be permanantly deleted. > Regardless of the shortcut, every other modern OS (win and mac) uses the > delete key to "move to trash" and a <special>+delete key to permanantly > remove the file. > > Lets stick to the established commands over time where Shift+del is > permanent delete, not cut text. Other apps should _not_ use that key > combination for a task that isn't permanently deleting something. > > Just my 2ct. > > Heiko Tietze wrote: > Let's do a quick poll: > https://plus.google.com/107566594492891737454/posts/QJzpApTeSFg > > Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > I would not do that. It would be unexpected behavior when the user > deletes a file (in for instance dolphin) and expects it to end up in the > trash. With your suggestion it would be permanantly deleted. > > Why would with my suggestion end up permanently deleted instead of trash? > > Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > Lets stick to the established commands over time where Shift+del is > permanent delete > > I don't know man, i already cited wikipedia proving you wrong, what more > do you want? > > Luigi Toscano wrote: > IMHO the poll should be better placed for example on forums.kde.org, or > woth some tool that does not require a google account. > > That said, even if different, we should have a global shortcut for > permanent deletion as now, or we will end up with bugs to have all apps > provide the same shortcut anyway. > > Heiko Tietze wrote: > >IMHO the poll should be better placed for example on forums.kde.org > > Don't understand a quick poll like this as a final and definite survey. > It's quickly done, addresses a lot of average users (guess more than on the > forums or via blog->planet), and adds one more insight. > > Mark Gaiser wrote: > Hi Albert, > > You said "DeleteFile is Shift+Delete by default" which lead me to think > that pressing "delete" was going to do that action. Sorry my bad. > > Regarding the shift+delete and wikipedia. I highly doubt what wikipedia > says is true. I know with 100% certainty that shift+delete is permanently > delete on windows, yet on that wikipedia page shift+delete is described as > cut shortcut. That is not right! > > Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > Regarding the shift+delete and wikipedia. I highly doubt what wikipedia > says is true. I know with 100% certainty that shift+delete is permanently > delete on windows, yet on that wikipedia page shift+delete is described as > cut shortcut. That is not right! > > You just made me reboot into windows 10 > > * Open Microsoft Edge > * Type "hola" in the url bar > * Select it > * Press Shift+Delete > * Close Microsoft Edge > * Open Firefox > * Press Ctrl+V > * Voilà, "hola" appeared on the url bar of firefox > > Matthew Dawson wrote: > So I think the best solution going forward is to give primary shortcuts > precedence over alternate shortcuts. Then Shift+Delete can be an alternate > shortcut for Cut and a primary for ForceDelete, which will behave as expected > in just about every application. Thoughts? > > Heiko Tietze wrote: > The majority expects to purge with shift+del (~75%). You may read this > result as approval to remove this shortcut. > > I would interpret this quick poll as only a few knows the standard and > expect a rather destructive function. While it's not harmful to cut an object > instead of purge, the intention might be safety. But vice versa, if the user > expects to cut and get purge, she might end in a quite uncomfortable > situation. So I still vote for less a comfortable shortcut for permanently > delete, which in turn would allow to keep the standard.
Looks like we're both right, Albert. Shift+del indeed works as cut (tried it in explorer (on the url bar), chrome, firefox). All cut text with shift+delete. In explorer on files shift+delete isn't cut (ctrl+x) but delete without moving to the trask. Aka, permanently delete. Wow, shortcuts are a confusing mess! So i'd say that shift+delete as global action is an alias for ctrl+x and applications can override it to do something more destructive. Net result (for Dolphin that is): no change ;) - Mark ----------------------------------------------------------- This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/129251/#review100230 ----------------------------------------------------------- On okt 24, 2016, 10:47 a.m., Elvis Angelaccio wrote: > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit: > https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/129251/ > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > (Updated okt 24, 2016, 10:47 a.m.) > > > Review request for KDE Frameworks, KDE Usability and Matthew Dawson. > > > Bugs: 357747 > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357747 > > > Repository: kconfig > > > Description > ------- > > This patch removes Shift+Del as secondary shortcut for the Cut action. This > shortcut was set back in 2001. > > Reasons for removing it: > > * The expected standard behavior for this shortcut is "Permanently delete" > * For the reason above, it is also set as primary shortcut for the > `DeleteFile` action. This causes conflicts in applications. > * For the reason above, many applications (e.g. Dolphin or Digikam) already > resolve this conflict on their own. > > Credits to Jan for the investigation: > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347373#c2 > > > Diffs > ----- > > src/gui/kstandardshortcut.cpp 92eb091382c7ab2110240cef21f29268be787250 > > Diff: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/129251/diff/ > > > Testing > ------- > > Using Shift+Del in Gwenview now works as expected. > > > Thanks, > > Elvis Angelaccio > >
