Hi Collin, If you have any of the docs/scripting around packaging Python along with it, I urge you to post it somewhere. After the stable release, I'm going to see how much work/if it'd be worth anything for me to get KiCad in the Mac App Store.
Adam Wolf On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 8:49 AM, Collin Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, this is kind of an old message, but I posted about this some time ago, > before there were even OS X nightlies. I mentioned that this would rear > its head eventually - as to when, that's for Apple to not tell us until far > too short a time before it happens, as they tend to do. The worry of > python2.7 vanishing is not unfounded, especially in light of changes Apple > made to it's documentation around 10.9. > > I'll summarize the key point > > As of 10.9 and onward, Apple's deployment requirements state that any .app > bundle that can be scripted/execute scripts itself in a way that makes OS X > API calls (so any GUI stuff) must not use any system provided interpreters > and instead embed its own copy of any interpreters used and any extensions > link to it. Yes, you read correct, if your .app is scriptable via python, > you have to include your own copy of python specific to that .app within > it. I did this successfully with KiCad, its relatively straightforward, > but does require some tweaks to the build system, some extra scripts > (mostly to shave down the size of the python framework, but even then it > adds ~80MB of bloat) and carefully compiling python such that it links to > the newest OS X SDK you wish to support, but with the > -mmacosx-version-min=... flag set to the oldest version of the SDK you wish > to support. You can't embed the system's interpreter as it is compiled > only for that 10.x revision. > > This is a requirement for inclusion in the App Store, so KiCad has no need > of doing this, but that change is fairly worrying, as these documentation > changes tend to be good indicators of where the fickle wind that is Apple's > developer policies may be blowing soon. :). > > Oh, and I recall that wxwidgets totally failed to handle > -mmacos-verison-min correctly so you have to manually set some defines, > MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET I believe. > > It's a mess. I say, lets include python scripting but not worry about > embedding it. FYI, I have a friend who refuses to upgrade from 10.6, so I > provide him special KiCad builds that are compatible and python scriptable > over the span of 10.6-10.11 (seriously). Weak linking to the system's > python, even across such a wide gap of OS X versions, has not caused us any > issues and indeed, the same .app bundle of KiCad can happily work, python > scripting and all, across 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 10.9, 10.10, and 10.11. Apple > has been very careful to maintain compatibility with all prior versions of > python for years now. If you check, python2.7 is still built with gcc > 4.2.1 and stdlibc++, despite the rest of the OS using libc++ and clang, > entirely to preserve that compatibility. > > For now at least, they seem pretty dedicated to continuing it. Python is > particularly huge amongst mac users, so it would cause a huge poop storm if > they broke anything in regards to it heh. > > > On Oct 2, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Adam Wolf <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > I definitely see that there can be problems there. I hope we can get > most users without a lot more work. > > > > It would not be a huge amount of work for me to make a different build > for each OS X version every night. > > > > Adam Wolf > > Cofounder and Engineer > > Wayne and Layne, LLC > > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Bernhard Stegmaier < > [email protected]> wrote: > > I think your build didn’t work correctly for me because the paths were > just wrong before my patch, so no plugins were found. > > I’ll retest when a new build has been made with the new paths. > > I guess it is not a problem for now. > > > > The rest about incompatibilities is just speculation, maybe also just my > lack of real knowledge how python works under the hood. > > > > In extreme, imagine you built on a (imaginary) OS X 10.12 which only has > python3 installed. > > So, the app bundle will contain wxPython stuff (binary libs and python > packages) built with (or, against) python3, but no python interpreter > itself. > > Now, imagine running this bundle on a 10.11 with python 2.7. > > Will this work? > > I don’t know. > > If python wrt to the wxPython stuff doesn’t know such bad things like > ABI changes in binary C++ world, it is maybe no problem at all. > > > > This example is of course not (yet?) reality, but I hope you get the > point I am concerned about. > > But maybe it is nothing to worry about at all… > > > > > > Regards, > > Bernhard > > > > > >> On 02 Oct 2015, at 21:42, Adam Wolf <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> Don't worry, Andy, I'm not going to stop the OS X dmg releases! > >> > >> If no one else gets to this soon, I will dig into this. I need to find > out why my build isn't working for Bernhard, and figure out the matrix of > OS X release and Python version that is currently supported, and figure out > if there's actually a gap. > >> > >> Adam Wolf > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Andy Peters <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:32 PM, Bernhard Stegmaier < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> > Of course, we could switch back to some package manager like > home-brew or MacPorts on OS X, but you would lose the ability to just > download and run an app bundle (everyone would have to “build” his own > version - even if it is just a pre-built download). This is not very > Apple-like (but again, that’s probably only a matter of taste). > >> > >> I would like to be the voice of MANY Mac users who don’t want to deal > with a package manger (homebrew, MacPorts, whatever). The ideal > distribution format is a disk image from which the user drags the > executable to any location. The next-to-ideal format is a standard OS X > installer package. > >> > >> -a > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >> Post to : [email protected] > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >> Post to : [email protected] > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : [email protected] > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >
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