Hello, I'd like to contribute with my 2c. I completely agree with Kristoffer, there is a need for a "MPN" field hard coded exactly as "Value" field is hard coded in Kicad.
As Wayne mentions the current "Preferences - General Options - Default Fields" is not a bad option to add a "MPN" field. This is what I do and this is what all my PCB colleges at work do. Above solution will however not help the majority to do the same. I would actually bet 2c that nearly nobody uses the Default Fields feature (most of the people probably do it component by component). And this makes it a not so useful feature. Kicost is a god-made tool and for sure Dave will soon add MPN as a default field in Kicad. Cheers Fabrizio On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:41 PM, kristoffer ödmark < [email protected]> wrote: > My updated patch forgot to add the files before doing the --amend. > > So it only updated the commit message. Here is the real file > > On Tue, 2018-05-22 at 07:52 -0500, Ben Hest wrote: > > From a Digi-Key KiCad library standpoint, as we're still in beta, I > > would > > gladly change the fields to whatever would be decided. Uniformity > > for > > plugins use would definitely be an advantage. > > > > -Ben > > > > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:38 AM kristoffer ödmark < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Thanks! This is exactly what i was going for, non-intrusive > > > oppurtunity > > > for uniformity! > > > > > > I tested the bom2csv plugin, It did not include the empty fields. > > > > > > I also tested the bom_csv_sorted_by_ref, it did not include the > > > empty > > > values, but it included some values I had not specified, such as > > > Manufacturer and Vendor even if they were not provided in the > > > schematic. > > > > > > - Kristoffer > > > > > > On Tue, 2018-05-22 at 11:05 +0100, Jeff Young wrote: > > > > I think I like this new patch. It provides the /opportunity/ for > > > > uniformity, without getting in the way of those who want to go > > > > their > > > > own way. > > > > > > > > Do the BOM generators automatically output all default fields or > > > > only > > > > those with values? > > > > > > > > > On 22 May 2018, at 09:22, kristoffer ödmark <kristofferodmark90 > > > > > @gma > > > > > il.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Please disregard my previous mail, it got mangled badly > > > > > somehow, it > > > > > did > > > > > not look like that in my editor at least. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2018-05-21 at 18:22 -0400, Wayne Stambaugh wrote: > > > > > > Eeschema already supports creating default optional fields in > > > > > > the > > > > > > configuration settings dialog. Used correctly, these will > > > > > > give > > > > > > you > > > > > > the > > > > > > same optional field names for every project without having to > > > > > > add > > > > > > them > > > > > > by hand to each symbol and possibly typing in different field > > > > > > names > > > > > > by > > > > > > accident. > > > > > > > > > > Different users will still type in different field names for > > > > > the > > > > > same > > > > > things though. What you describe works as long as there is only > > > > > one > > > > > person in the entire projects lifetime, using only one > > > > > computer. > > > > > > > > > > > The proposed patch would intermingle the default fields > > > > > > with > > > > > > existing schematic symbol fields which would break existing > > > > > > BOMs > > > > > > which I > > > > > > don't think users will appreciate. > > > > > > > > > > The proposed patch will only change default settings, existing > > > > > users > > > > > with a config already in place will not be affected. I realised > > > > > that > > > > > the fields now accept empty values as well, so existing boms on > > > > > new > > > > > installations will not be affected either. I updated the patch, > > > > > so > > > > > it > > > > > will not affect anyone that doesnt use the fields. > > > > > > > > > > > [...] As I've stated before, I can set 10 > > > > > > different designers down and I will get 10 different sets of > > > > > > default > > > > > > field names. This really seems like me to be a configuration > > > > > > issue. > > > > > > > > > > This is the problems I want to address, because those 10 > > > > > designers > > > > > will > > > > > by experience also spell the same field in 10 different ways. > > > > > Making > > > > > their fields incompatable. MPN, MFPN, #mfg, ManufPart, etc etc. > > > > > Let > > > > > those 10 designers remove the fields they do not want instead. > > > > > > > > > > > The only possible solution that I would accept is to move the > > > > > > default > > > > > > field definitions from the eeschema configuration file into > > > > > > the > > > > > > default > > > > > > kicad project file. This way existing projects would not be > > > > > > polluted > > > > > > with the proposed default fields and users could define their > > > > > > own > > > > > > default fields in a custom project file. > > > > > > > > > > Default fields does not pollute if they are empty, they just > > > > > give a > > > > > hint of what data could be put into the schematic, same as with > > > > > the > > > > > datasheet field, which is not often used. Funny how noone ever > > > > > complains about that one. > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > A more flexible solution would be to add a "File->New from > > > > > > Custom > > > > > > Template" command to KiCad to allow the user to select any > > > > > > custom > > > > > > project file. This would allow for multiple custom project > > > > > > files > > > > > > instead of forcing the user to use only a single default > > > > > > project > > > > > > file. > > > > > > > > > > As long as the "File->New Project" would include the additional > > > > > fields > > > > > and then people can use "New from Custom Template" means they > > > > > can > > > > > use a > > > > > template that is empty. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose. > > > > > I am > > > > > proposing a slightly different default configuration, not any > > > > > change in > > > > > how people will use the software. > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > On 05/20/2018 06:27 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote: > > > > > > > I agree, I had the same issue when I was doing my board, I > > > > > > > needed a > > > > > > > field for all components, and I had to manually add it for > > > > > > > every > > > > > > > item, > > > > > > > there was no way to add this field to all components at the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > time or > > > > > > > to have it add by default from the addition of a new > > > > > > > component > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > the sheet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which reminds me, Cadence Designer has tools to manipulate > > > > > > > fields > > > > > > > on a > > > > > > > large scale, whether to add, delete, show, hide, etc, this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > that would be nice to have in KiCAD, either that or a table > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > components for the sheet or schematic and columns for each > > > > > > > field, > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > ability to show/hide each cell individually. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the ultimate goal is to make the Symbol Table more > > > > > > > useful, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > that'll take to long for v5 so if Kristoffer's patch allows > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > way > > > > > > > to add fields to all components or similar, I'd say do it > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > will be pissed and waste their time doing it for every > > > > > > > component in > > > > > > > their schematic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:01 PM, kristoffer Ödmark > > > > > > > <[email protected] <mailto:kristofferodmark90@gm > > > > > > > ail. > > > > > > > com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I obvviously disagree, the correct solution would be to > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > both. > > > > > > > This does not hinder that, its not even the same > > > > > > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is for everyone who want for example the > > > > > > > Manufacturer > > > > > > > Part Number will have to define a fieldname, which every > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > results in them abbreviating it to something different. > > > > > > > Hence > > > > > > > nobody > > > > > > > can work with Manufacturer Part Numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is something similar, Imagine all of the colours in > > > > > > > Kicad > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > all of the layers where white by default. Have fun > > > > > > > defining > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > colours yourself. > > > > > > > Maybe you want to define them yourself, nobody is > > > > > > > stopping > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > either, just get cracking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How easy would it be for you to look at the board > > > > > > > someone > > > > > > > else > > > > > > > made > > > > > > > later and understand what is what? Maybe for some that > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > better > > > > > > > solution, but for me that > > > > > > > would be an extreme example of bad default values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how the default fields are now, they are white, > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > see-throught, which makes life harder for anyone that > > > > > > > wants to contribute or create tools that interact with > > > > > > > kicad, > > > > > > > and as > > > > > > > I previously said, this is only a default, you are still > > > > > > > equally able to add/remove or change the fields how you > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > to. > > > > > > > But, tools like kibom or various other web-based tools > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > easier integrate to it, or at least support a default > > > > > > > value > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > So for the majority of users, who doesnt change > > > > > > > defaults, > > > > > > > the tool would just work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will reiterate, I do not care what they are named, I > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > default field where I can put my manufacturer part > > > > > > > number, > > > > > > > amongs > > > > > > > others. > > > > > > > The specific abbreviation or name does not matter, If i > > > > > > > care, I > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > manually add/remove my own fields *JUST AS I DO NOW*, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > the people > > > > > > > who use it, it will be easier across projects, for the > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > dont, It will not matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sane defaults matter. A lot actually. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Kristoffer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2018-05-20 23:40, José Ignacio wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont like this, the right solution would be to > > > > > > > allow > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > importing a default config into kicad for things > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > different groups will have different policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:31 PM, Kristoffer Ödmark > > > > > > > <[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The patch should only affect first startup, > > > > > > > changes > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > fields > > > > > > > will be saved > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 2018 22:18, "Seth Hillbrand" > > > > > > > <[email protected] <mailto:seth.hillbrand@gma > > > > > > > il.c > > > > > > > om> > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kristoffer- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This feels like a management issue rather > > > > > > > than a > > > > > > > tool > > > > > > > issue. > > > > > > > If the user doesn't want any extra fields, > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > would your > > > > > > > patch allow that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -S > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am So., 20. Mai 2018 um 13:00 Uhr schrieb > > > > > > > kristoffer Ödmark > > > > > > > <[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>>>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will open this can of worms again, I > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > that I have > > > > > > > to. So from what > > > > > > > I gather we have proffessionals as the > > > > > > > main > > > > > > > aim > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > Kicad. > > > > > > > The reason I will open this issue again > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > feel we > > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > collaboration issue, maybe not a mayor > > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > nonetheless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We really need more default fields for > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > schematic > > > > > > > symbols. Im not > > > > > > > proposing required fields, I am *ONLY* > > > > > > > proposing that > > > > > > > there should be default fields added > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > default > > > > > > > fields settings > > > > > > > tab. I am not proposing they need to be > > > > > > > filled > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > libraries, nor that people need to use > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > only that > > > > > > > they need to > > > > > > > exist with a fresh install of kicad so > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > problems > > > > > > > such as theese do not happen: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Collaborators working on the same > > > > > > > project > > > > > > > will not > > > > > > > create > > > > > > > duplicate fields in libs/projects > > > > > > > describing > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > thing by mistake > > > > > > > - Projects that aim to interact or > > > > > > > add > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > Kicad can > > > > > > > assume that the > > > > > > > Fields will exist, and will know what > > > > > > > name/tag > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > look for > > > > > > > (bom exporters, price checkers, > > > > > > > MacroFab, etc) > > > > > > > - Open source projects will be > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > collaborate, > > > > > > > read and order > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason I think it is better to have > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > fields by > > > > > > > default than the > > > > > > > current solution to add them is that the > > > > > > > majority > > > > > > > will use > > > > > > > what exists, and tools can support it > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > beginning, people > > > > > > > with inhouse tools seems to dislike > > > > > > > this, > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > map their > > > > > > > parts with an inhouse number - and then > > > > > > > handle > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > information about the > > > > > > > part there. From what I gather, this is > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > majority, and > > > > > > > these persons still modify the default > > > > > > > fields > > > > > > > settings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I spent maybe 30-40 mins checking the > > > > > > > "made > > > > > > > with kicad" > > > > > > > projects, I > > > > > > > found that the most common addition to > > > > > > > libs > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > schematics > > > > > > > are: > > > > > > > - Manufacturers part number, these > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > named > > > > > > > widely > > > > > > > different in > > > > > > > projects, (BOM, MP, MPN, #mfg, or > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > syntaxes in > > > > > > > the Value field ) > > > > > > > I even saw a mix of these in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > project > > > > > > > once, along with > > > > > > > some people having the vendor id only. > > > > > > > - Manufacturer ( found some > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > languages > > > > > > > though ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more uncommon things was, Tolerance( > > > > > > > 10%, > > > > > > > 20pps), > > > > > > > Ratings > > > > > > > ( 1/4W, 85C, > > > > > > > 16V ), Vendor information and different > > > > > > > Descriptions. They > > > > > > > were named > > > > > > > and abbreviated > > > > > > > very differently accross projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I would like to see is these > > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > fields by > > > > > > > default, but > > > > > > > hidden from the schematic unless changed > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > user. > > > > > > > Tolerance ( used for setting > > > > > > > tolerances > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > resistors, > > > > > > > capacitors, > > > > > > > oscillators, etc ) > > > > > > > MaxRating ( field were one can > > > > > > > specify > > > > > > > max > > > > > > > Voltage, > > > > > > > Ampere, > > > > > > > Frequency, or whatever the component > > > > > > > needs ) > > > > > > > Manufacturer ( For inhouse numbers, > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > just remove > > > > > > > it, or use the company/group name ) > > > > > > > MPN ( Maybe PartNumber could be > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > here, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > who use > > > > > > > inhouse numbers use it aswell, I dont > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > care > > > > > > > what its > > > > > > > called, as > > > > > > > long as its called something ) > > > > > > > Vendor > > > > > > > Notes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would be all up for extra > > > > > > > additions/removals, > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > would prefer if > > > > > > > the naming is not discussed, but rather > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > decided/agreed upon by > > > > > > > someone in the lead team. > > > > > > > The very least I think should be added > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > previous is to much are: > > > > > > > Tolerance > > > > > > > Manufacturer > > > > > > > MPN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I attach a patch for the minimal set, > > > > > > > tested > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > linux by > > > > > > > removing the > > > > > > > .config/kicad/eeschema file. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Kristoffer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ps > > > > > > > Some github files i reviewed, not all: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/b > > > > > > > lob/ > > > > > > > mas > > > > > > > ter/MCP3002-I_SN.lib > > > > > > > <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/ > > > > > > > blob > > > > > > > /ma > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/ > > > > > > > blob > > > > > > > /ma > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib > > > > > > > <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/ > > > > > > > blob > > > > > > > /ma > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Blix > > > > > > > ten% > > > > > > > 20L > > > > > > > ED%20Device/Blixten.sch > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Bli > > > > > > > xten > > > > > > > %20 > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Bli > > > > > > > xten > > > > > > > %20 > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Bli > > > > > > > xten > > > > > > > %20 > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/master > > > > > > > /pcb > > > > > > > %20 > > > > > > > design/IGBT_board-cache.lib > > > > > > > <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/maste > > > > > > > r/pc > > > > > > > b%2 > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/maste > > > > > > > r/pc > > > > > > > b%2 > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib > > > > > > > <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/maste > > > > > > > r/pc > > > > > > > b%2 > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sch > > > > > > > /cap > > > > > > > _sm > > > > > > > d.lib > > > > > > > <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sc > > > > > > > h/ca > > > > > > > p_s > > > > > > > md.lib> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sc > > > > > > > h/ca > > > > > > > p_s > > > > > > > md.lib <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sc > > > > > > > h/ca > > > > > > > p_sm > > > > > > > d.lib>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schemat > > > > > > > ic_p > > > > > > > cb/ > > > > > > > electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schema > > > > > > > tic_ > > > > > > > pcb > > > > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schema > > > > > > > tic_ > > > > > > > pcb > > > > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schema > > > > > > > tic_ > > > > > > > pcb > > > > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch>> > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > > > ____ > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > > > Mailing list: > > > > > > > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > > > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > > <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-develope > > > > > > > rs > > > > > > > <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>> > > > > > > > Post to : [email protected] > > > > > > > nchp > > > > > > > ad. > > > > > > > net > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > .net > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe : > > > > > > > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > > > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > > <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-develope > > > > > > > rs > > > > > > > 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