(I reopened https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/3453 )
I personally think the best tool we could create is one that allows you to take a closed shape drawn on a board layer and extrude that by a given height to create a model that can then be exported as a STEP along with the rest of the board. If we did that, we would not need any specific tools for creating boxes or cylinders. I think this is somewhat independent from the topic of what to do about VRML scaling. -Jon On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 6:17 PM Cirilo Bernardo <cirilo.berna...@gmail.com> wrote: > HI Mario, > > Maybe I could make a small tool to allow you to create different > sized/colored boxes and cylinders > in VRML format. Would that be helpful to you? We could possibly even > add other basic shapes. > I'd like to help users move away from scaling (it's something I always > wished I could get rid of). > Unfortunately I see no way we can do this without causing a lot of > pain to all users who currently > have scaled VRML models. > > Cirilo > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:51 AM Mário Luzeiro <mrluze...@ua.pt> wrote: > > > > From my user experience: I use the 3 scale values on my projects. > > I created unit solids (eg: 1mm cube, 1mm cylinder radius / thickness, > etc) and then I use it to quickly create shapes (by adjusting X,Y,Z scale) > to populate the board if I don't have the proper STEP model. > > This is helpful to create round buttons, push buttons switch house > packages, displays (attached is an example I made just using 1mm cubes) > > I'm using WRL but I believe it should work if I had used STEP scaled and > then export it for CAD purposes. > > > > If you remove scale at all, I will need to learn and use a new CAD > software :/ :) > > > > My suggestion is keep the scale but hide (or disable) it by default on > the UI and it should only be enabled by clicking on some checkbox, at that > time, displaying some message to the user "this is not a good idea for > CAD.." > > > > > > > I'm not sure the history of why VRML was chosen as the first model > type that was supported > > > > Maybe at that time it was created was a very time consuming thing to > implement. > > For STEP we need a 3rd part library (as it is very complex format). > > On the current 3D-Viewer implementation, Cirilo worked alone on the > model importer code alone and it took some months of work.. > > > > Mario > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: Kicad-developers <kicad-developers-bounces+mrluzeiro= > ua...@lists.launchpad.net> on behalf of Seth Hillbrand <s...@kipro-pcb.com > > > > Sent: 29 September 2020 19:01 > > To: Jon Evans > > Cc: kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D-Viewer: limit scale to positive > values? > > > > I've never seen another package use VRML. Everyone uses STEP. I > suspect if we were implementing this today, we would look at the tradeoff > on support/benefit for VRML and limit ourselves to STEP as well. > > > > I like Ian's suggestion for unit options. > > > > -Seth > > > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 10:22 AM Jon Evans <j...@craftyjon.com<mailto: > j...@craftyjon.com>> wrote: > > Do other EDA tools allow model scaling? Altium doesn't even allow VRML > import in the first place. > > > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 1:10 PM Seth Hillbrand <s...@kipro-pcb.com > <mailto:s...@kipro-pcb.com>> wrote: > > Well, we've backed ourselves into a bit of a corner. VRML is specified > in meters, so if we're assuming inches, we're a bit off in left field. But > do we need three separate scale parameters? We could reduce to 1, correct? > > > > In the official footprint library, we have 7 footprints that specify > non-unity scaling. (Banana_Jack_[1-3], NS-Tech_Grove_1x04, Fuse_Blade_ATO, > Fuse_Blad_Mini, Oscillator_SMD_TXC0_G158). > > > > -Seth > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:30 AM Ian McInerney <ian.s.mciner...@ieee.org > <mailto:ian.s.mciner...@ieee.org>> wrote: > > We can't remove the scaling option until we make the VRML importer > handle proper unit selection. I have routinely run into the case where I go > OpenSCAD -> Wings3D -> KiCad and design a model using mm in OpenSCAD > because it makes for easier computations (all the datasheet values are > nicely given in mm) and then have to apply a scaling factor of 0.3937 to > all the axes in KiCad to make it the proper size because we seem to have a > hardcoded assumption about what unit system the VRML file is in. > > > > In fact, the KLC says: WRL files do not specify absolute dimensions. > KiCad normalizes model parameters to units of inches and the internal units > (dimensionless) of the WRL model must be scaled accordingly. > > > > -Ian > > > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 4:50 PM Seth Hillbrand <s...@kipro-pcb.com > <mailto:s...@kipro-pcb.com>> wrote: > > There has been some discussion to removing the scale option here > altogether. The logic being that if you need the model scaled, you should > be doing this in your solid CAD not in your electronic CAD. I have come > around to this idea and it might be worth implementing rather than doing > the scale limiting. > > > > -Seth > > > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 4:52 AM Mário Luzeiro <mrluze...@ua.pt<mailto: > mrluze...@ua.pt>> wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I'm wondering if it is safe to limit the scale of shapes to be positive > values? > > > > Applying negative scales will cause inverted shapes and render issues on > the models. > > > > Could be that anyone in the world is using negative scale values? > > or should be safe to limit it? > > > > This is related with this issues: > > https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/5817 > > > > Mario > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net<mailto: > kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > -- > > [KiCad Services Corporation Logo] > > Seth Hillbrand > > Lead Developer > > +1-530-302-5483<tel:+12126039372> > > Davis, CA > > www.kipro-pcb.com<https://www.kipro-pcb.com/> i...@kipro-pcb.com > <mailto:i...@kipro-pcb.com> > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net<mailto: > kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > -- > > [KiCad Services Corporation Logo] > > Seth Hillbrand > > Lead Developer > > +1-530-302-5483<tel:+12126039372> > > Davis, CA > > www.kipro-pcb.com<https://www.kipro-pcb.com/> i...@kipro-pcb.com > <mailto:i...@kipro-pcb.com> > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net<mailto: > kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > -- > > [KiCad Services Corporation Logo] > > Seth Hillbrand > > Lead Developer > > +1-530-302-5483<tel:+12126039372> > > Davis, CA > > www.kipro-pcb.com<https://www.kipro-pcb.com/> i...@kipro-pcb.com > <mailto:i...@kipro-pcb.com> > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >
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