On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Stuart wrote: >> On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Stuart wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Is it possible to install kid without useing the setuptools >>> stuff? I have had a history of problems with that package >>> to the extent I do not want it on my system. >> >> Is it specifically the dependency resolution and fetching, or just >> everything / bad taste in the mouth? There are ways to avoid the >> dependency resolution (I'd have to look up the right way to do it >> currently, since I never do that myself). > > Both. My recollection from using it 6mo or a year ago with > a different package is that it downloaded a bunch on dependencies > without (my memory may be bad here) asking me. That is something > I really dislike. Too Microsoftish for me. :-( > Its also a quality issue. Too often (like with kid) it doesn't > work. I got a http 404 error when kid's setup.py tried to download > it. So I manually downloaded what seemed to be a current version > of setuptools, unzipped it, and then what? No setup.py. No readme > or install.txt. I looked in ez_setup.py which pointed to another > file and that file made reference to xxxxx.txt (sorry forgot > filename) that contained instructions but that file didn't exist. > I went though all this once before, including groping around > the setup tools website and finding documentation but most of > it was confusing, and not targeted to someone who just wanted > to get a package installed. > So the impression I'm left with is that this is not a very well > thought out or implemented piece of software, and I want to > avoid it as much as possible. > (Sorry for the rant, this is not really the right place for it...) [...]
Whoa! The first word, "Both.", might have done :-) For the bad taste in the mouth I can only recommend mints ;-), but the "don't automatically download and install stuff" bit is easy. I tested the following on a Windows box with kid 0.9.3 and setuptools (I'll try it on Linux at home later). See below for my diagnosis of why you failed to install setuptools (that part was fairly easy too ;-). Looking at easy_install --help, I see the command to install just the one package at a time, without downloading anything, is: easy_install --no-deps <thing to install> Where <thing to install> is the .tar.gz, or .zip, or .egg, or .py. So, for kid I did: wget http://www.kid-templating.org/dist/0.9.3/kid-0.9.3.tar.gz easy_install-2.4 --no-deps kid-0.9.3.tar.gz Alternatively, download and unpack the tarball (or zip or SVN checkout, or whatever), change directory into it, and: python setup.py easy_install --no-deps . Of course, you also need to do this for the dependencies of the package if it has any. I do know Fredrik Lundh (of elementree fame) is... not enthusiastic either about setuptools, so certainly you may not be unwise to follow his own instructions (http://effbot.org/zone/element-index.htm#installation) to get elementtree installed. Still, I was able to install elemmenttree the same way: wget http://effbot.org/downloads/elementtree-1.2.6-20050316.tar.gz easy_install-2.4 --no-deps elementtree-1.2.6-20050316.tar.gz After that, "import kid" worked for me (didn't test any further than that). Hope this is useful. It's true that simplified, highly-targetted setuptools / easy_install end-user docs are still lacking. I know Phillip has said he intends to write some (although to be honest, since easy_install users are -- in my book anyway -- always Python developers, the lack of simplified, user-targetted, docs doesn't seem a huge burden...). Re your experience of installing setuptools: I wonder why you chose to make up your own installation instructions?-) The *correct* installation instructions may be found by typing "setuptools" (or "easyinstall") into Google, clicking "I'm feeling lucky", then reading the words under "Installing setuptools" (or "Installing Easy Install"). There are explicit instructions there explaining how to install it without a network connection, hence no automated downloads (perhaps those instructions were not there when you tried?). I don't know why setuptools has no setup.py (taking your word that it doesn't; I've not looked), but awkward bootstrapping issues are presumably common when writing installer installers (Windows file locking comes to mind), so guessing installer installation instructions is unwise, as your experience confirms! Finally, I understand that you probably don't care <wink>, but I would suggest that simple-mindedly putting problems with installing some projects down to "Its [sic] also a quality issue" reveals a misunderstanding on your part of the nature of the problem that setuptools / easy_install solves. Enough sermonizing. Here endeth the lesson :-) John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ kid-template-discuss mailing list kid-template-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kid-template-discuss
