As an aside, I'd like to point out that Koha libraries using LibraryThing for Libraries (the function for which is built into Koha already in GlobalSystemPreferences>EnhancedContent) seems to be the best current solution for tagging issues.
See the example below: http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=63777 The "tag browser" basically works as a separate search engine. Would be great if Koha had this separate from LTFL (which costs money), but it's a workable solution for now. CM On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:30 PM, LAURENT Henri-Damien < [email protected]> wrote: > Le 25/05/2011 14:38, Ian Walls a écrit : > > The fundamental problem with making Tags searchable as keywords is that > > they are not part of the MARC records at all, and since Zebra builds > > it's search indexes solely off the MARC, there is currently no way to > > inject the tags. > > > > So, our options are: > > > > 1. Put the tags into MARC fields, and index those (probably a bad idea > > for any kind of record interoperability, and many catalogers will hate > > the idea of the public being able to edit the MARC record) > > > > 2. Put the tags into a different metadata format and index them > > separately, mixing in the results with the results for MARC fields. > > Complicated, but flexible. > > > > 3. Have a separate search mechanism for tags. Not very integrated, and > > if it's MySQL-based, will bog down like Koha did before Zebra. > > Hi > hopping into the thread. > > Could also be done tweaking the rebuild_zebra which would take some > mysql information and put them into a marcrecord with hardcoded > tags/subfields (090 091 990 ? For Internal Koha usage... Some quite > important mysql data such as last modified, first created, and so on > could also be added that way.) Maybe a kind of plugin for rebuild_zebra. > > But I would have rather more librarians to talk about that issue. > Some librarians will want to index those tags, others won't because it > will add some noise and users donot add "correct and valid" tags. > Problem would to add to zebraqueue as soon as a tag is added or validated. > > > To adress Lori's question, about the SOPAC2 management of tags, this > would not be ideal i think. > Insurge would be yet another indexing engine with another technology > (sphynx and mysql). And changing for or adding Insurge would not change > the core problems. It is not the indexing engine... It is the way things > are done, the C4::Search.pm and the way we index things. > > I would have rather index the stuff as a tag index into a zebra/whatever > koha search engine. Working on Solr integration, we pondered on the > question. And decided Not to add A plugin to index tags at the moment... > The more you add indexes, the more you add overhead at indexing time. We > have to work on a solution to index a record as fast as lightning... But > run short of time. And the MARCXML representation is not the "fastest to > parse" one (This could be addressed... But would any library be > interested in funding that idea ? koha should work as fast as it was > in... 2.2... And it is internal work... So, who cares ?). MarcXML choice > may have been clever at one point... But what we did with it was not (I > mean the C4::XSLT.pm and the parsing of stylesheet could be embedded in > a more clever way, the rebuild_zebra in iso2709 only at first...). And > the counterpart is everyday heavier and heavier. > > But still, it would have to index the record when a tag is added... > Which is not ideal. Neither is the present day situation... But at > least, it is not adding some overhead indexing with tags management or > noise in the results. > > But what data is indexed and how it is indexed should be a global > concern (For instance, acquisitions information, user interactions, and > claims may all be indexed into the search engine) ? that would raise > issues for indexing... acquisition elements, privacy, permissions (Do > patrons need to be able to search with acquisition data ?) and so on... > In my humble opinion, that would need to be discussed on a wider scale > than just a company or a dev group, or even a users group.... And not > only librarians, but all the users, that also mean patrons. patrons' > opinion should be important. There is a workgroup need there. Not on a > local base (which would already be nice), but on a widescale base, with > use cases. The whole koha users may have to speak their minds about what > THEY want. And when ppl agree on what they want to see, they could go > through RFP, RFI, CCTP, whatever. And speaking only english could raise > some artificial barriers (indian libraries, french, german users, > pakistanese, spanish users). > > Maybe I am too much demanding, you may think I am just whinning or idle > thinking. But there are groups that gathered and worked and designed > stuff... Why should Koha users around the world not be able to do so ? > > My 2 cents. > -- > Henri-Damien LAURENT > > > > > I'm open to other ideas for how we could make tags more usable in Koha; > > they're a great feature, they just need to be made more accessible. > > > > > > -Ian > > > > 2011/5/24 G. Laws <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > > When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and > > approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from > > the staff interface. > > > > That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there > > is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to > > have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an > > otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but > > <gregariously> misspelled, tags. > > > > If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags > > listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's > > not really like a search term. > > > > Greg > > ================ > > > > > > On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote: > >> Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I > >> equate tags with keywords and would think they should be > >> searchable one in the same. > >> > >> Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and > >> looking at your own list? > >> Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the > >> LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best > >> way to go, though it does have a price. > >> > >> CM > >> > >> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >> > >> Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced > search? > >> > >> Greg > >> ----------------------------- > >> > >> > >> On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote: > >>> We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding > >>> improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily > >>> welcome participative assistance in this regard with any > >>> interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it > >>> with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about > >>> enhancements, or via direct email. > >>> > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> -------------------------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote: > >>>> Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that. > >>>> > >>>> I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you > >>>> still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems > >>>> silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at > >>>> all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the > >>>> feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* > >>>> be there to make searching more robust. > >>>> > >>>> Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries > >>>> function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix > >>>> this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be > >>>> curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the > >>>> tags in a catalog search. > >>>> > >>>> Caitlin M > >>>> > >>>> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] > >> > >>>> > >>>> I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. > >>>> We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so > >>>> maybe this will be a good discussion topic. > >>>> > >>>> However, you clearly have a separate problem with > >>>> tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You > >>>> have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the > >>>> OPAC configuration there are several settings, like > >>>> tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those. > >>>> > >>>> Of interest, however, I now see that the text for > >>>> tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to > >>>> tag, so I don't know what's with that. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> Greg Lawson > >>>> Rolling Hills Consolidated Library > >>>> 1912 N. Belt Highway > >>>> St. Joseph, MO 64506 > >>>> 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303> > >>>> > >>>> ----------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote: > >>>>> Hey all, > >>>>> > >>>>> How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through > >>>>> the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, > >>>>> other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags > >>>>> to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the > >>>>> item does not appear when a search is done for that tag > >>>>> after. > >>>>> > >>>>> Suggestions? > >>>>> > >>>>> CM > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Caitlin McGurk > >>>>> /Librarian > >>>>> The Schulz Library > >>>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies > >>>>> <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>/ > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org > >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>>> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org > >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Caitlin McGurk > >>>> /Librarian > >>>> The Schulz Library > >>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org > > > >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>/ > >>>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Caitlin McGurk > >> /Librarian > >> The Schulz Library > >> The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>/ > >> > > > > > > -- > > > > Greg Lawson > > Rolling Hills Consolidated Library > > 1912 N. Belt Highway > > St. Joseph, MO 64506 > > 816-232-5479 x2303 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ian Walls > > Lead Development Specialist > > ByWater Solutions > > ALA Booth 732 > > Phone # (888) 900-8944 > > http://bywatersolutions.com > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > Twitter: @sekjal > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org > > [email protected] > > http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha > > _______________________________________________ > Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org > [email protected] > http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha > -- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> [email protected]*
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